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Taoiseach: NMH land will be 'essentially' State-owned

Updated / Thursday, 5 May 2022 19:42
Micheál Martin also said the most important aspect of the issue is that the hospital is built (File image)
Micheál Martin also said the most important aspect of the issue is that the hospital is built (File image)

The Taoiseach has said that the land for the new National Maternity Hospital will be "essentially" state-owned because of the 300-year lease secured at €10 per year.

Micheál Martin also said the most important aspect of the issue is that the hospital is built, and that there's an "urgency" to replace the existing "unacceptable" conditions at the current hospital in Holles Street in Dublin.

Asked today if he understands the concerns of some about the hospital not being built on public land, he said: "It essentially is, will be, state-owned, in terms of the 300-year lease. I think the most important aspect of this from my perspective, now, is that we build a modern facility, for women, into the future, that they can have all services provided but in a proper, modern, high-quality facility and it’s important that we develop a world-class neonatology, neo-natal sector as well as part of this development.

"Tremendous advances have been made in neonatology over the last two decades and high-quality environments matter in terms of the survival of newborns, particularly prematurely born, and there’s tremendous quality of care available."

Speaking in Courtnacuddy, Co Wexford, where he unveiled a new expansion of the Killowen Farm yogurt and cheese plant, the Taoiseach said there are "many, many guarantees" about the services to be provided at the new hospital.

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"There is an urgency about us making sure that such modern facilities are provided and in the context that all of the issues that were raised that people had concerns about, which I understand, around would all services be provided, that were legally-permissible, provided for in legislation, the answer is unequivocally 'yes' in terms of the multi-layered legal guarantees that are being provided both in the constitution of the hospital itself, the new hospital; in the operating licence that the HSE is granting to the new hospital; in the higher number of directors representing the public interest on the board’ in terms of the minister’s golden share."

Mr Martin added that it is "really urgent" that they get a modern facility to replace what are "unacceptable conditions now in Holles Street".

Asked about State money being put into the new facility, he said the State’s money will be funding the provision of the hospital rather than the land.

"We’re getting this site for 300 years at a tenner a year, that’s the deal" he said.

"It’s a 300-year lease, at 10 euros a year. We then are funding the construction of the hospital."

Mr Martin was asked again about the concerns of people about the status of the hospital, and said: "It has to operate in accordance with that licence, it has to provide all of those services.

"I don’t believe any longer that any of those concerns are sustainable, in my view it’s very clear that all those services will be provided.

"There’s no doubt about that."

The Minister for the Environment, Climate and Communications has said the situation in the current National Maternity Hospital is intolerable and a new hospital is needed.

Speaking in the Dáil, Eamon Ryan said a new hospital would not be completed until 2030, and any delay beyond this point would cause further controversy.

"In my own view, the legal structure shows that there will not be any religious interference here," the minister said.

He was responding to Sinn Féin's Pearse Doherty, who said that while a new hospital was needed, expediency cannot be at the cost of women's rights.

Deputy Doherty said it does not make sense that the Government is going to build a €1 billion hospital on land which the State does not own.

What is required is a publicly owned hospital on publicly owned land, he said, adding that this would address the many concerns raised about ownership and governance.

Minister Ryan said the 299-year lease being offered by St Vincent's Holding Group for the new hospital is "akin" to State ownership.

He said his view was that there was "no material difference" between the €10 annual lease and outright State ownership.

However, Social Democrats co-leader Róisín Shortall said the lease would only cost €10 a year as long as six conditions, stipulated by the St Vincent's Holding Group, were met.

If the conditions were not met, she said, the cost would jump to €850,000 a year - something she branded a "punitive penalty clause".

Deputy Shortall quoted a statement made by Minister Ryan in 2017, in which he spoke against the creation of a lease agreement, and asked: "Have you changed your mind?"

She derided a statement made by Minister for Health Stephen Donnelly that there was a 100% guarantee that there would be clinical independence.

Ms Shortall said this was "nonsense", as the only thing a court would have regard for what was contained in the legal documents.

Minister Ryan said there was "an urgency" about getting on with building the National Maternity Hospital "rather than going back to the drawing board".

Regarding concerns about clinical independence, he said: "I believe that is addressed".

Deputy Shortall replied: "Do you realise that the new National Maternity Hospital is due to become a wholly owner subsidiary of St Vincent's Holding Group?"

This was happening, she said, when it was not possible to see all of the documentation between the group and the Vatican regarding the transfer of lands.

Read more:
NMH discussions need to reach conclusion - Taoiseach
No ambiguity over NMH independence - Donnelly

Labour leader Ivana Bacik urged the Government to make public any correspondence between the Sisters of Charity and the Vatican in relation to ownership of the site of the National Maternity Hospital.

She said they are "still are lacking some crucial information" concerning the transfer of ownership, adding that they do not know if the Minister for Health has seen any such correspondence.

"Let's see why they can't just gift it to the State", she said.

Mr Ryan said it is up to the Order to decide what they make public.

"There are rules around freedom of information... but private correspondence is not included in that", he said.

Independent TD Catherine Connolly described the proposed arrangements for the new hospital as "Kafkaesque and Byzantine", and called for the Government to publish the constitution of the proposed hospital.

Ms Connolly also said reports in the Irish Times indicated that the Government was not going to change the plans.

However, Minister Ryan said the Government opened up all the documents related to the hospital to "make sure it's all transparent", adding that they "will see" what the Government decides in two weeks time.

"The central concern was religious interference. There is a clear legal certainty those concerns can be addressed," he said.

Meanwhile, a Consultant Obstetrician and Gynaecologist said clinicians would not be moving to the St Vincent's campus if they thought they were "going to be restrained in any shape or form by people who were telling us what was and was not legally permissible."

Speaking to RTÉ's Drivetime, former Master of the National Maternity Hospital at Holles Street Professor Declan Keane said they would be "doing what they do now in line with the law of the land."

He said if he thought it would be helpful if the list of procedures clinicians currently carry out that are legally permissible but that also would be deemed clinically appropriate could be listed would help in the controversy or in the confusion, such a list could easily be produced.

However, Prof Keane stressed that the list "cannot be totally exclusive because medicine changes, things will change - I have no doubt that the types of reproductive IVF we will use will change in time, so it can't be totally exclusive, but we can certainly give the list which will hopefully allay any anxiety".

He said he really doesn't care who owns the land on which the National Maternity Hospital lies, rather, what concerns him is "who runs the hospital, that it is run appropriately, and that it deals with all the aspects of womens' health".

Reporting by Mícheál Lehane, Paul Cunningham, David Murphy

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Conor Kane

South East Correspondent