"He was so excited. 'We're going forward again now David,' he said. He's with me in heart now."
Two weeks ago, brothers David and Mark Ryan were planning a fresh push in their campaign for justice for survivors of historic child abuse in fee-paying schools run by religious congregations.
Last November, David and Mark's harrowing accounts of the repeated sexual abuse they received while at the prestigious Blackrock College sparked a national reckoning.
Within a week of sharing their stories on RTÉ's Radio's Doc on One, 'Blackrock Boys', 233 men joined the Ryan brothers in making allegations of historic abuse against members of the Spiritan congregation who co-run Blackrock College as well as other schools run by other religious congregations.
The surge in disclosures prompted a State inquiry and a major garda investigation.
In recent weeks, significant developments emerged in both the inquiry and the garda probe. The Ryan brothers were preparing to highlight those on RTÉ's Drivetime when last Thursday, David received a phone call he will never forget. Mark had died suddenly in London aged 62, suffering a suspected heart attack.
"A huge shock. I still can't believe it's happened. We talked every single day on the phone. There wasn't a day that we didn't talk. It could be two or three times a day," David told RTÉ radio this week.
"Mark and I never really talked before. But since the Doc on One, we just got closer and closer. He stood by me, so caring and loving. It's such a loss. He did everything for me. He was my rock. A rock."
RTÉ Doc on One - Blackrock Boys
In the weeks following the documentary, gardaí launched a special investigation into allegations of sexual abuse against members of the Irish Spiritans - formerly known as The Holy Ghost Order - as well as those working at Spiritan-run schools, such as Blackrock College and its feeder school Willow Park.
This week gardaí revealed how files relating to 13 victims of abuse have been forward to the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP), who will now decide whether to press charges all these years later.
"An Garda Síochána received over 130 contacts ... primarily from victims, but also contacts from persons who witnessed abuse and from persons on behalf of victims," said a garda spokesperson.
However, gardaí also confirmed how "investigations in relation to a significant number of victims have been completed as it has been established that the alleged suspects are deceased".
A few weeks ago, David received both the news he had been waiting for but also the news he had been dreading.
Both he and Mark were abused by the same priest at Blackrock College, who is now deceased. Neither knew the other had been abused for several years. Both also had a second abuser at Blackrock College, who were different people.
Several years ago, David made a garda complaint against his second perpetrator, but the DPP decided not to press charges.
"After we appeared on 'The Late Late Show', I went to gardaí and made another statement," explains David.
"This time the clock started turning a bit as I remembered more through my counselling. I went to the police and told them more of what I remembered about my second perpetrator, giving them a long statement.
"What an evil man he was. He did chloroform me. I felt so sick.
"The garda rang. They told me they had both good and bad news. The good they said, 'We were going to charge him with the abuse of you and three other people who came forward. But the bad news is that he's died'.
"I burst into tears," David continues, "so near and yet so far, a bitter bitter sweet pill to swallow. To think that this time I might have got justice and to see him in court."
David composed himself and rang Mark.
"He broke down crying. We fought so hard to get this other man, and especially when three other people came forward, the case looked so strong. We were going to get him this time at long last. But Mark said 'David, from the 'Doc on One', he did suffer'".
Following the wave of allegations last year, Minister for Education Norma Foley set up a scoping inquiry to issue recommendations about what form of inquiry should be established to investigate historic abuse in schools.
The scoping inquiry is chaired by Senior Counsel Mary O'Toole and run by Quality Matters, an independent organisation which has experience interviewing people who have suffered trauma.
It is understood that over 200 survivors have engaged with the scoping inquiry, with survivors taking part in interviews and providing written submissions in recent weeks on what form of investigation they would like.
The inquiry is due to issue its recommendation to the Government in November - the anniversary of the broadcast of 'Blackrock Boys' - but concerns are growing it may miss this deadline.
The Ryan brothers are among those worried about any potential delays, with Mark commenting last year how any inquiry "needs to be fast. I would like to see it published before I die".
"I remember him saying that and bless him, he's passed away now," David said.
"He's up there and he'll want this to be published as soon as possible. I want it done as soon as possible. Mark would be so proud of all the people who've come forward and I'm so proud of him."
The Department of Education insists the scoping inquiry will meet its November target; a spokesperson saying how "the team is working intensively toward the timeline set out and no change has been made to the deadline stated initially".
Documents shared with survivors show the scoping inquiry is considering seven options to investigate historic abuse in schools. These include mediation, a redress scheme, a non-statutory inquiry, a commission of investigation and a tribunal of inquiry. Survivors are warned the various options could take anywhere from between three months and nine years to complete.
"I won't be able to fill his shoes, but I will carry on whatever I need to do for Mark, ourselves and everyone else"
Six of the seven options involve private hearings - something which worries David. He told the scoping inquiry how a tribunal of inquiry is the only option for survivors, so hearings can be held in public.
"It has to come out. These perpetrators have to be named and shamed. A public inquiry has to come. Cameramen, reporters, everyone must come to this. It went on for too long and was hidden for too long. It has to be heard so it can never ever happen again," said David.
Ultimately, David would like to see a State apology and for as many survivors as possible to witness it before age and time catches up with them.
"It would mean something, definitely. They've done it before for other things. It would be nice to hear it from the Government, to stand up and address it with as many of us there as possible.
"It would mean something to us all. For them to apologise for what happened, it would mean a lot to us."
With Mark gone, how does David have the strength to keep going?
"From all the support I’ve been getting. Mark's strength. I’m not going to bury myself. It killed my father and I'm doing it for everyone else that can hopefully come forward too.
"Since Mark's passing - I don't know what it is - I've got an inner strength in me. I'm so much stronger than I was. And I'm doing it for Mark.
"I won't be able to fill his shoes, but I will carry on whatever I need to do for Mark, ourselves and everyone else.
"The Doc on One opened a can of worms that we never thought would be opened. Where it goes from here - God only knows.
"Mark has done the State some service."
A memorial event for Mark Ryan will be held in Dublin in the coming weeks, with details to be published online.
If you've been affected by any of the issues raised in this report, support is available at rte.ie/helplines.
