Former chair of the RTÉ board Moya Doherty has said it was "staggering" that neither she nor her board colleagues were aware of the existence of a barter account for RTE during their tenure.
Ms Doherty's was addressing a sitting of the Oireachtas Public Accounts Committee (PAC), alongside senior RTÉ representatives, to face questions about understating broadcaster Ryan Tubridy's income.
It came a week after RTÉ admitted it paid Mr Tubridy hundreds of thousands of euro more over a period of several years than it declared to the public and to the Oireachtas.
A barter account is used in accounting to record the exchange of goods or services for other goods or services.
Ms Doherty said that account was "outside of the financial department, and therefore not reported to us as a board during our monthly meetings, and did not exist in the monthly management account".
"For me, as chair, and for my colleagues on the board, that is staggering and absolutely shocking ... we didn't even pick up in the corridors of RTÉ the existence of the barter fund," Ms Doherty said.
She said despite it being common, "it raises the bigger issue now about the tension between commercial and public service".
She later told the committee: "It is incredibly difficult to ask questions and to expect answers if there are secret and clandestine agreements that are not registered on the books."
New DG set to 'reconstitute' board
Earlier interim Deputy Director General Adrian Lynch told the committee that the first task of the incoming Director General of RTÉ, Kevin Bakhurst, would be to reconstitute the broadcaster's Executive Board.
He said RTÉ's Executive Board failed in its collective responsibility regarding the events leading to the misstatement of payments to Mr Tubridy.
In his opening statement, Mr Lynch said the application of governance procedures at Executive Board level allowed for the partial and incomplete sharing of information, so that individual members of the Executive either did not have access to information, or had information withheld from them.
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Mr Lynch also said that "it's possible" that Mr Tubridy was told that the payments issue had arisen before he stood down from the Late late Show.
"So, Ryan Tubridy could well have been informed by somebody that these concerns had been raised?" Sinn Féin's John Brady asked, and this "could have influenced" his decision to step down.
"Based on the information from yesterday, it's possible," Mr Lynch said.
PAC chairperson Brian Stanley said the committee now has powers of compellability, and wanted to put witnesses, including former RTÉ director general Dee Forbes, "on notice".
The Sinn Féin TD said the committee would ask Ms Forbes to attend when it is "medically appropriate for her to do so".
Labour TD Alan Kelly asked RTÉ to provide by next Thursday "a copy of all bank accounts and where they are", as well as all barter accounts "for the last 20 years", including for TG4.
Salary information for the highest paid must include pension top-ups, he said, and also when cars were first given to stars, as this was raised in the Dáil in 2005.
'Never 100% certain' on other payments
Mr Collins said he could "never be 100% certain" there are no other payments to other individuals which are similar to arrangements which were made for Mr Tubridy.
However, he added: "We have very good control systems within RTÉ outside of this barter account."
On transactions relating to Mr Tubridy, Mr Collins said he was given "comfort" in the fact credit notes in the organisation's barter account, which were labelled as consultancy fees, had been signed off by Ms Forbes.
Asked if he should have made sure he understood what the credit note was for, he said: "The credit note was approved by the director general. From a control point of view, I was happy."
Mr Collins also said he was not sure what his exact salary was, before stating that it was "around €200,000".
When asked by Sinn Féin TD John Brady to state his salary, and when pushed to do so by Mr Stanley, Mr Collins said: "I don't know what my exact salary is."
He later said that it is around €200,000, plus allowances.
Ms Doherty said that as chair of the organisation for eight years, she was "not aware of a slush fund or clandestine arrangements or a tripartite agreement".
Chair 'appalled' with how payments recorded
RTÉ Board chairperson Siún Ní Raghallaigh told the committee that she is "appalled" at how payments to Mr Tubridy were recorded and presented in RTÉ accounts.
In her opening statement, Ms Ní Raghallaigh said the presentation of payments to Mr Tubridy was "an act designed to deceive".
Ms Ní Raghallaigh said: "As a trained accountant and a former financial controller, I am appalled as to how payments were recorded and presented in the RTÉ accounts. What was the motivation here?
"It appears to me that this was an act designed to deceive." The forthcoming external Government review, is "not enough" in the short term, she said.
"Every day that passes can further erode confidence in an institution that is a cornerstone of this State," Ms Ní Raghallaigh added.
The first step in cultural change at RTÉ is to consign the term 'talent' and its use "to the dustbin," Ms Ní Raghallaigh said.
Ms Ní Raghallaigh said she apologised to Minister for Media Catherine Martin for failing to tell her that Ms Forbes' resignation had been sought.
Ms Ní Raghallaigh met the minister last Saturday and told her Ms Forbes "was suspended".
"I apologised for not giving her the information at that time," Ms Ní Raghallaigh said, adding that she had "explained to her this morning" the "chain of events".
"I don't think any minister would put up with that," Alan Kelly said.
He asked Ms Doherty if she would have told the minister. with her replying: "Yes."
Members of the RTÉ Executive Board attending the PAC are interim Deputy Director General Adrian Lynch, Director of Commercial Geraldine O'Leary, Director of Legal Affairs Paula Mullooly, Director of Strategy Rory Coveney and Chief Financial Officer Richard Collins.
Also attending are RTÉ Board chairperson Ms Ní Raghallaigh along with board members Anne O'Leary and Robert Shortt.
The RTÉ Board is a body made up of 12 people that makes policy for the broadcaster, while the Executive Board is a committee composed of senior management responsible for its day-to-day running.
