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Fingleton tells banking inquiry he 'feels wronged'

Former Irish Nationwide boss Michael Fingleton appeared before the banking inquiry today
Former Irish Nationwide boss Michael Fingleton appeared before the banking inquiry today

Former Irish Nationwide boss Michael Fingleton has told the banking inquiry that in some circumstances he could approve loans of €1m before the building society's board was notified.

He also has defended his €27.6m pension pot and said it had grown because he had personally managed the fund.

Mr Fingleton told the banking inquiry that the net cost of the fund was €3m to the building society and he grew it ten-fold.

He also said that he regretted very much that the State and the taxpayer had to pick up the bill for the financial crash.

Mr Fingleton told the inquiry that he feels he has been wronged.

He said that he always insisted that the board would be involved in the lending processes.

"I don't regret any decision I took, but I do regret that the society had a loan book that was too large," he said.

He said he regretted that the building society did not get the time to downsize the society's balance sheet.

Mr Fingleton said he did not determine his bonus; it was done by the remuneration committee.

He denied that he had exclusive knowledge of loans, saying the board approved all loans over €1m.

He said he ensured that the board had the final say on lending. Mr Fingleton said Nationwide's lending was within the capacity of the society's financial resources.

He said he was ultimately responsible for what took place in the organisation. 

Meanwhile, the former chairman at Irish Nationwide, Michael Walsh, has blamed the Central Bank and the Financial Regulator for not intervening sooner to deal with the crash.

He told the inquiry he could not understand why the authorities did not intervene in the markets before the financial crisis broke. 

Mr Walsh said he warned the Regulator in May 2008 that actions were required to save the Irish financial system and he said acting sooner would have cost less. 

Labour Senator Susan O'Keeffe raised the findings of the Central Bank's recent investigation into the society, which pointed to multiple failings.

She said Mr Walsh was largely blaming external factors and she asked whether he should also list its own failings.

Mr Walsh said he took issue with the findings and he said the Central Bank did not speak to him as part of its probe and he was chairman at the time. 

Mr Walsh said he was "absolutely astonished" by evidence at the inquiry from Brendan McDonagh of the National Treasury Management Agency, that Irish Nationwide was a broken institution.

Mr Walsh said Mr McDonagh had told the Department of Finance in an email that Nationwide had €3 billion in cash on the night of the bank guarantee.

He denied that Nationwide created the property bubble. He said no one institution could create a bubble.

He said he did not believe the society lent without approval of the board.

Mr Walsh said he could not rationalise the €5.4bn bailout cost for Irish Nationwide and said the maximum would be €3.8bn. 

But he added no loss to the taxpayer was acceptable. He said he had deep regrets he did not see the problems earlier. 

He said that the Financial Regulator never took a leadership role.

Fingleton 'regrets' building society's role in crash


Sinn Féin finance spokesperson Pearse Doherty pointed out a report by consultants Deloitte found the board did not approve loans.

Mr Fingleton said he disputed the "allegations" and he said he could not comment for legal reasons.

He said in some circumstances, he could approve loans of €1m along with two other members of the credit committee.

The board would then have to be notified at the earliest opportunity. 

Usually, the board had to approve these loans but there were exceptions to deal with commercial realities.

He could also extend funding if there was an urgency. Paperwork relating to loans was not always on file but no security was ever compromised.

He agreed that in hindsight, his bonuses in 2006 and 2007 were not warranted but said his salary was not determined by him but by the remuneration committee.

A question about a valuable watch gifted by the society to Mr Fingleton on his retirement, was not allowed by the chairman due to legal restrictions. 

Mr Fingleton, one of the most controversial figures involved in the financial collapse, said that having built up the society, it was an absolute shock to him and a bitter disappointment that it succumbed to a cataclysmic crisis. 

He said he regretted that very much but he had also paid a price and was continuing to do so. 

But he added that the extent of the crash was unforeseen by even the most astute, and the collateral damage was immense for everyone. 

Mr Fingleton was head of Irish Nationwide for 38 years from 1971 to 2009.

The building society received €5.4bn in State funding.

He said that Irish Nationwide was not insolvent on the night of the guarantee. 

Mr Fingleton said that in September 2007, he decided it was prudent to take measures to scale back the society's lending.

Irish Nationwide had been unable to effect a trade sale at the time. 

Mr Fingleton said the society had €4bn on deposit with other banks and had no need for wholesale funding.

Fine Gael's Kieran O'Donnell asked if he accepted that in terms of size, Irish Nationwide's €5.4bn bailout meant it was the biggest failure in the history of the state.

Mr Fingleton said that only held if you accepted NAMA's valuations but he did not, and would produce evidence. 

He restated his belief that the society was solvent on the night of the guarantee.

Mr Fingleton also told the the inquiry that if Irish Nationwide had stopped lending in 06 instead of 07, its commercial book would have been totally eliminated.

He agreed they had too many joint ventures with developers but he said the level of non-recourse loans did not matter. 

Fine Gael TD John Paul Phelan asked: "A view did exist that you were Irish Nationwide, is that not the case?" Mr Fingleton responded that the Financial Regulator misunderstood the powers he had.

He said he was seen as the face of the society. He said he did promote himself through PR because the Society could not afford advertising.

Fianna Fáil Senator Marc McSharry asked if a trebling in the size of Nationwide's loan book was sustainable.

Mr Fingleton said it did have the capacity for the loans which where were secured on assets.

He said he had a relationship with one client who was a politician. Mr Fingleton said he borrowed from Nationwide and had some buy-to-let properties.

He said he maintained a deposit account with the Society and lending was done on normal terms and there were no concessions to him.

Mr Fingleton told the inquiry he did not agree that the taxpayer will get none of the money back which was used to bail out Irish Nationwide.

He said Nationwide was dealt with unfairly in the Nyberg Report. He said he was interviewed by its author, Peter Nyberg.

The report dealt with the society based on information provided by the new management and a report by accountants.

In relation to an evaluation of loan contracts by the Nyberg report, Mr Fingleton said he disagreed that INBS was more of a venture capitalist rather than a building society.

When asked by Socialist Party TD Joe Higgins if it was a ''crony venture" he disagreed.

Mr Fingleton also said he disagreed with another finding of the Nyberg report that the drive for demutualisation was linked to the high drive for profits.

Senator Michael Darcy was blocked from asking about the warehousing of loans by Nationwide for legal reasons.

In response to questions from Fianna Fáil's Michael McGrath, he said he has been misrepresented in all comments about him and he said that 80% of what has been written about him is wrong.

He said he disagreed with the Central Bank findings that INBS failed to comply with it's own policies and procedures, of which there were more than 1,000 alleged failings/breaches identified.

Mr Fingleton said he disagreed with this report and said he cannot comment further in relation to these findings for legal reasons.

Mr Fingleton said the society's corporate structures were "adequate but not perfect".

He said it could have survived without the bank guarantee as the increased deposit guarantee covered 95% of its cash, leaving the society in a very good position.

No further loans were given to Ballymore Properties after board member David Brophy became CEO of the company, he said.

At the conclusion of his evidence, Mr Fingleton said the questioning was tough but fair.

Inquiry hears Fingleton had special contact with big clients

The former finance director of Irish Nationwide has told the banking inquiry that Mr Fingleton was head of lending at the society and had special contact with large clients. 

John Stanley Purcell said Mr Fingleton would have seen that as a major part of his function but he said the CEO was not a one stop shop in terms of underwriting.

Mr Purcell said sometimes loans over €1m came to the board having already been approved by Mr Fingleton and two members of the credit committee but he said there were reasons for this and it was not a rubber stamping.

He said he made a confidential settlement with the Special Liquidators of Irish Nationwide to settle a claim.  This involved no admission of liability.

On an ongoing Central Bank probe against him and other Irish Nationwide directors, he said he could not understand how the Central Bank was purporting to investigate him when they were also responsible.  He is challenging that probe in the courts.

He did not feel that the society's level of risk was excessive. 

Mr Purcell said that he believed on the night of the bank guarantee that INBS was solvent.

He told the inquiry that a meeting with the Financial Regulator on 7 September 2007, which he attended, was called because the Regulator was taking precautions after news agency Reuters reported that the building society was making accommodations with creditors.

Mr Purcell said that this report was untrue and that Reuters had admitted this later.

Mr Purcell said the purpose of the meeting was to see of the Bank of Ireland and AIB could provide INBS with a standby facility. However he said that neither bank indicated a willingness to do so and the meeting had "just petered out."

Mr Purcell described Mr Fingleton as a very focused managing director who worked extremely hard, was very involved in lending, was very knowledgeable, and was strong and focused MD but he said his control was subject to the board.

He also said Mr Fingleton was interested in de-mutualisation and was keen to sell INBS.

Deputy McGrath asked Mr Purcell about INBS's apparent focus on the de-mutualisation and sale of the building society.

Mr Purcell said that there would be a windfall for members but that nothing had been agreed in relation to any financial benefit for directors and staff.

Upon further questioning from Deputy McGrath, Mr Farrell said that such benefits could have been agreed as part of the sale, and that would have been discussed and probably would have been pursued.

As the person in charge of the bank's IT systems, Mr Purcell was asked by Deputy Doherty if Mr Fingleton had access to the computer in his office.

Mr Purcell said that he was not sure, but that he did not think that he did, however he said Mr Fingleton would have had access to a computer through his secretary and that reports were brought to him.  

Pressed further by Deputy Doherty who said that they were talking about a €16bn enterprise and not a corner shop, Mr Purcell said that Mr Fingleton did have access to a computer in that he could sit down with somebody and go through stuff on a computer.

Mr Doherty then asked Mr Purcell what he would say to those who might accuse him of being Mr Fingleton's "yes man", and he replied "I don't agree".

When asked by inquiry chairman Ciaran Lynch whether Mr Fingleton ever issued loan cheques and then sought board approval retrospectively, Mr Purcell said he may have but he could not recollect it.