The SEAI tells us that the overall energy related emissions are slightly down on last year but transport emissions are up. Electric vehicle (EV) sales are also up, but the impact of that isn't being felt because the sales of SUVs have not dropped. So should all SUVs be taken off the road on a phased basis?
Professor Brian Caulfield, associate professor at the School of Engineering at Trinity College Dublin, and Geraldine Herbert, motoring editor at the Sunday Independent joined RTÉ Radio 1's Today with Claire Byrne show to discuss the issue. (This piece includes excerpts from the conversation which have been edited for length and clarity - you can hear the discussion in full above).
According to Caulfield, we need to think about phasing out SUVs altogether. "The problem as I see it, is based upon evidence produced by the International Energy Association saying that SUVs on average have a 20% higher emissions profile than, say, a saloon or hatchback car. If we're selling these, and at the volume that we're currently selling them, they could be wiping out any benefits that we're getting from electric vehicles," he says.
We need your consent to load this rte-player contentWe use rte-player to manage extra content that can set cookies on your device and collect data about your activity. Please review their details and accept them to load the content.Manage Preferences
From RTÉ Radio 1's Drivetime, should electric vehicles pay for road usage like other cars?
"From a climate perspective, obviously if they're electric, that's better. However, the amount of minerals and materials that are required to build one of these big, electric SUVs, perhaps it's maybe a bit of a waste of those materials, if we could use smaller lighter vehicles, is what I would say." On top of the climate argument for getting rid of SUVs, there's also a safety argument, says Caulfield. While research shows people feel safer inside SUVs, that's not necessarily true for those outside: pedestrians and cyclists.
Herbert says the term SUV has become a catch word for everything "from a small crossover to a pickup truck," so we need to be clear on what we're actually talking about. "I think in terms of electric SUVs, as we move forward, what we're seeing is the new crop of electric cars have a very different body shape. Car makers have discovered that by having lower to the ground, more aerodynamically-shaped cars we actually yield much more range from batteries. So I think electric SUVs could be phased out just from an efficiency point of view."
We need your consent to load this rte-player contentWe use rte-player to manage extra content that can set cookies on your device and collect data about your activity. Please review their details and accept them to load the content.Manage Preferences
From RTÉ Brainstorm, why the reign of SUVs on Irish roads should end
As for what's currently on the road, Herbert highlights that we have a "polluter pays policy" for motor taxation. "If they're emitting more, people are paying more at the moment, so I think we need to be mindful of that. Overall, individual actions matter and I think consumers do need to think about their buying choices. But I think car makers, as well, need to create affordable cars for families, that offer safe space and practicality, and I don't think that's been an offer for a long time. So if consumers are buying SUVs they're buying them because that's what has been offered for a long time by car makers," says Herbert.
Car manufacturers are meeting demand, but family sizes are getting smaller, says Caulfield. He says SUVs are "a little bit like low hanging fruit" and phasing them off our roads is "something that we could start to have the discussion on". The really good news is that, according to the SEAI, emissions are down overall on the 2018 baseline, he said, but phasing SUVs out would be one of the incremental jumps we could take to reach our future targets.
Read more: Why the Government has to go beyond cars to cut transport emissions
Caulfield said that although the user already pays for having a bigger car, "perhaps they need to start paying more" if this is their choice of car. "From an air quality perspective, as well as a climate perspective, these vehicles are larger and they produce more particulate matter, which impacts upon air quality. We've seen this across Dublin city and the other cities in Ireland, that air quality standards are dropping, as well, as we see these SUV sales increase." When it comes to the fight against climate change, "it's not going to be easy. The kind of things that we need to do are going to be really difficult," says Caulfield.
Herbert said the government "isn't helping the situation" by reducing the grant for electric vehicles by €1500 in July, which she says will impact the sales of smaller, affordable electric cars. "So I think the government also needs to be clear on, what are we encouraging people to drive? And if they want people to opt for smaller cars and more affordable cars, they really need to rethink their grant policy."
We need your consent to load this rte-player contentWe use rte-player to manage extra content that can set cookies on your device and collect data about your activity. Please review their details and accept them to load the content.Manage Preferences
From RTÉ Radio 1's Morning Ireland, UCC Professor Hannah Daly discusses the government's decision to cut the EV grant
Responding to comments from listeners about the accessibility of smaller cars for older people and the question of families who say they would need to buy two cars if they got rid of the bigger SUV-type, Caulfield says it's not "one-size-fits-all". He highlights that research shows many of those who have SUVs don't actually need them. "As the emissions profiles come down, as the technology improves in these vehicles, then perhaps they could be slightly bigger. But it's the ones that have the 20% higher emissions profile, those are the ones that we that we do need to get rid of."
How would a phasing out of SUVs work?
"First of all, I see it perhaps happening in the cities, where we talk about it from an air quality perspective. Because that's a clear and present danger when it comes to people's lives in cities, where the climate issue kind of feels a little bit too far away. Put out those market indicators to say, over the next five to seven, whatever years, we're going to start taking them out of our city centres. Then perhaps taxing them higher to get people away from them," says Caulfield. "These SUVs have come into the market in Ireland really quickly, so there's nothing to say that they couldn't move out as quick."
We need your consent to load this rte-player contentWe use rte-player to manage extra content that can set cookies on your device and collect data about your activity. Please review their details and accept them to load the content.Manage Preferences
From RTÉ Radio 1's Drivetime, Dublin ranked worst city in Europe for public transport
This would primarily be targeted at petrol and diesel SUVs first, which made up 60% of SUV sales last year. But when it comes to taxing SUVs higher, that would include EVs, he says. "I'm not talking about something that would happen overnight. Because it's not fair on motorists or anybody to do these types of changes quickly, it's something that would have to very much be phased in."
Responding to the argument from a listener that families should be buying "people carriers" but don't because they aren't as "cool or prestigious" as SUVs, Herbert says: "They aren't sold anymore, our car makers have moved away from making MPVs or people carriers, as they were called. Because the market dictated that, consumers didn't want them."
Read more: Why the EU's 2035 ban on petrol and diesel cars doesn't matter
Although families might seek out people carriers on the second-hand market, "they have been off the road for so long now, you'd be very hard pressed to find an MPV," she adds. "And then they're older, so there's less safety features in them. Families tend to opt for newer cars with more safety features. So they're really not an option for families at the moment."
On the idea of phasing SUVs off the roads in cities, she says that electric SUVs are "going to have to be taxed in a different way, if we're moving towards all of our cars on the roads being electric," but adds we should really be moving towards car-free cities rather than targeting SUVs. "We really do need to improve public transport before we start taking options away from people, but then what we should be moving towards in our cities is car-free." Caulfield adds that he's "definitely not going to argue against that," but that it's going to take so long to get public transport at the level that we need to get it to.
