A broad smile broke across the face of Jacques Nienaber when the defence guru was asked about Ireland keeping Italy scoreless last Sunday.
"I thought it was beautiful, I texted the lads afterwards. I just said that 'zero' does look beautiful," he said.
The South African, who joined up with Leinster last November, was beaming.
Leinster put their 'senior coach' up for media duty on Monday and it’s always time well spent.
The 51-year-old who, alongside Rassie Erasmus, won back-to-back World Cups with the Springboks, is open and engaging and always willing to give his two cents.
In a wide-ranging interview, the former Stormers and Munster assistant was asked about new trends in rugby, calling a scrum from a mark, if there was anything to be learned from American Football defence, working with the young guns at Leinster and how he sees Felix Jones and Jerry Flannery settling in in their new roles.
He also spoke about how his famed "14-week" time frame to get a new system in place, working with Sam Prendergast and what he expects from today's visitors to the RDS, Benetton, as Leinster bid to stay top of the URC standings.
Last Sunday, defences were on top in the first half of the Super Bowl and Ireland 'nilled' Italy. Did you ever study American Football or other sports from a defence coach viewpoint?
Jacques Nienaber: "Michigan State [Wolverines] came to South Africa [in 2019] and I spent some time with them, a day or two with their coaches.
"It's so different. The wide receivers and the defenders and the tactics that they use and the type of tackles. Some of them will tackle just with their head, try to get their heads through the ball type of thing.
"I know there are some coaches that have transitioned into NFL and trying to teach the tackle there but it’s a little bit different.
"There are some things that you probably can learn from them but it’s a completely different thing altogether."
What did you make of Ireland keeping Italy scoreless?
JN: "I thought it was beautiful. I texted the [Leinster] lads afterwards. I just said that 'zero' does look beautiful.
"For any defence coach it's a thing of beauty. But obviously the pressure you put on from an attacking point of view creates that.
"I just said 'that zero does look beautiful"
— RTÉ Sport (@RTEsport) February 15, 2024
Leinster senior coach Jacques Nienaber speaks to @MicilGlennon about Ireland's defence not conceding a single point against Italy #IREvITA #SixNations pic.twitter.com/oM8OavkhyU
"If you have scoreboard pressure like Ireland had they have to take more risks and from deeper, which probably puts you in a better position so it is always a thing of beauty, a 'zero'."
With so many Irish players at Leinster, does that count towards the 14-week timeframe you mentioned about bedding in a new defensive system?
JN: "I think I burned my fingers by putting a time on it!
"The point then was just that it is going to take time, there's no silver bullet.
"I've been here seven games, four Champions Cup and then the three provincial games, this will be my eighth.
"Half the squad got four games, the other half got three so it's just the beauty of now is to probably be working with the majority of the group who played the 1st of January and having the time when you don't have to focus on a team.
"Last week, we didn't have a game on the weekend so it gives you opportunity in the week to focus on yourself and how you do things, this week we have to focus on ourselves and Benetton.
"That's the nice thing, we have rugby weeks in between with no opposition and you can focus on yourself.
"The main thing is it will take time, that is the long and the short of it."
Have any of the younger players stood out while the seniors were at international camp?
JN: "Ja, definitely. That's the exciting part of this block, you get to work with the young players that's coming through the ranks, that's playing for the Irish Under-20s last year and the year before.
"You get to spend more quality time with them, I enjoy working with the younger players and there's good quality coming through.
"The guys in the academy, years 1-3, it's nice working with them and there's nice quality coming through.
"It's just my first or second week working with them, so they get the hang of me currently and I'm getting the hang of them. We're getting used to each other, which is good."
Talk about Sam Prendergast [he's starting today on the bench]
JN: "Sam, I've been working with the whole time I've been here, he's been the back-up, with all the injuries we have.
"He was always in the mix, even in European games.
"He's a quality rugby player, with an unbelievable skillset. He's 20, I'm 51 and it's important not to put the 51-year-old head on the 20-year-old body.
"He needs to find his own groove with the skillset that he has, it's almost to master in his own mind his own skillset.
"Players are bullet-proof when they're 20 and they should be. It's nice working with Sam."
What's your take on the modern game, have you noticed any particular trends emerging post-World Cup in this Six Nations?
JN: "Obviously, that 'Dupont' one [the loophole in a kicking law].
"When we [South Africa against France in the RWC quarter-final] called the scrum from the mark, that's what we were thinking of.
"To get an end to the kick-tennis game, when we catch it in the 22, just call a mark or you can stand still, let all your players in your team retreat until they're onside.
"We actually had a laugh about it, we said before calling the scrum it would be quite funny if you just stand still and people walk back, like last weekend [England v Wales, Scotland v France].
"I'm sure people will have a look at that, not to say that they have to because there's a game within a game with that and I'm sure people will find ways to look at it as an attacking opportunity.
"That's the big one that stands out. I can't say if teams are kicking more or less, I'm not sure, but kicking's always been part of the game and if teams are coming hard at you, then teams are trying to exploit the kick-space in behind.
"I saw a lot more line-speed, I think there's a lot more appetite for teams to apply a lot more line-speed on the attack and that's great.
"So, rugby is always going to evolve. It has to.
"A lot of squads are building towards the next World Cup cycle, there's a lot of new players and when you think of Wales, they are a young side.
"If they can stick together, add another 50 caps to them before the 2027 World Cup there will be nice experience there.
"Teams are exploiting different avenues."
Has it hit home in the last couple of weeks that you're back to being a club coach rather than being an international one?
JN: "International rugby is international rugby. Sometimes you will sit and watch it, like on the weekend.
"You watch the Six Nations games and you almost think back to how tense it is and how tense the environment is, how much is at stake.
"On one side you miss that, because I think that is where you feel alive.
"Where you have everything to lose, that’s where you feel alive. That’s the beauty of international rugby, but then the positive of club rugby is again where we are now within our group.
"Where you don’t just get the top guys in, where you have to grow squad depth within your squad with the young players coming through.
"The excitement you get from working with a 20-year-old, a 21-year-old, Sam turned 21 today.
"Which you don’t necessarily always get when you are at the national level. You don’t necessarily always get the beauty of working with youth.
"The youth, it’s excellent working with them. They bring a type of energy and like I say, they bring a type of bullet proofness to the environment, which is quite refreshing.
"There’s definitely positives in international rugby, but also positives in club rugby.
"You kind of have to pull the joy out of both. There’s also negatives. I mean, when you lose at club level, yes, it’s detrimental and it’s bad, but when you lose games that influence the country, that pressure is massive.
"It’s nice to be at a club, especially Leinster. The demand is always going to be massive.
"The demands that the fans and the club will have, and the players will have themselves, will equal the demands that you will have from an international team."
Did you see any signs in England's defence of anything that new assistant coach Felix Jones may have learned from you?
JN: "I can’t speak for Felix and I am not in the camp; I am a little bit reluctant as anything I say regarding England will probably be speculation and not factual but what I am getting from the media is that there is definitely a tendency for them to have a little bit more line speed.
"I can’t say that it is like South Africa. It will be more line speed with an English flavour on it. I remember when we played against them in the World Cup semi-final, they also brought line speed. That’s why I can’t say it’s South African or not.
"In rugby one must be very careful not to label a style.
"Nobody owns a style, nobody owns a brand [of rugby].
"You do things that you think are going to work for you, with the athletic ability and skill set that you have within your squad. That is why you decided to do things a certain way.
"Nobody owns the right to anything in rugby. Everyone takes a little bit off somebody and then they add their own flavour."
What can the Springboks expect from Jerry Flannery as new defence coach?
JN: "I coached with him when we were at Munster. Obviously, he would be very familiar with the way that Rassie would do stuff, because it will be very similar to how we did things when we were at Munster.
"Jerry actually spent some time with us in the World Cup preparation.
"I think he was there a week or two with the Boks. He understands how the environment operates and the players would know him.
"They met him for the week or two that he has been there. He won't be unfamiliar to them.
"He actually helped us a little bit with the hookers. He added value with the line-out throws, him being an international hooker himself.
"Just adding things that he saw and I’m not saying it took over from there and all that, but it just added value.
"I think it’s a good opportunity for Jerry and I think he will be good for the Boks. I think both of those appointments, him and Tony Brown, are excellent appointments.
"They will add value to the team.
"Knowing Jerry, we had some visits with Harlequins with Andre Esterhuizen playing there and Wilco Louw was there.
"There was a lot of South African players. When we did our club visits of the abroad players, Harlequins was one of the clubs that we visited.
"They were always open to us being there, so watching their training sessions, watching their gym sessions, being in their team meetings, they were always open to us.
"Obviously, I saw a lot of Jerry’s work as a defence coach there and I think he will be a good fit for South Africa."
How difficult is it to prepare for an unfamiliar Benetton team?
JN: "When Benetton or any team, recruit players, even the academy players, those players will suit the soul of that team.
"You sign players because they had a specific attribute skill set that you feel can add value to what you already have in your squad.
"Benetton have a specific playing style and soul that they apply pressure with and I don't think that will change.
"It will be definitely different players trying to fulfil a role or a certain style of play which the coaches have embedded since the start of this season.
"We will see similar to that, yes, there will be change because the players that we have won’t include the players that are currently plying their trade with Ireland.
"We will play with the strength of the guys that we have, which will be a little bit different to the strength of the guys playing with Ireland. I think it will be the same for them.
"Will it be difficult? Yes it will be different, the players that you know that play for Italy, play for Benetton, they are not playing there, so you have a good profile on them.
"It is almost defending or attacking against unknown players.
"They will have to prepare for our players which probably are not as well known, whose skill sets isn’t as well known as the guys that are playing for Ireland."
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