Ahead of the All-Ireland SHC final against Tipperary, with Cork looking to end a 20-year wait for the Liam MacCarthy Cup, Donal Óg Cusack sat down with his old team-mate, and current Rebels manager, Pat Ryan for a lengthy chat about potential glory, fulfilling dreams, and making sure you stay grounded in the dizzying chase for success.
Dónal Óg Cusack: Pat, how has the season so far been?
Pat Ryan: Very enjoyable really. A lot of hard work, especially after being beaten in the All-Ireland final last year (against Clare), fellas really knuckled down. We probably assessed what things we done right, and more what things we done wrong and couldn't get us over the line that day against Clare. We went after those things and in fairness the players really doubled down, trained really, really hard. 'Tis been a long year but a great year.
DÓC: You were a player for so long. You enjoyed your days on the field, off the field. We'd a couple of good days together ourselves...
PR: Probably too much! (laughing)
DÓC: ... every now and again. How do you make sure that you're enjoying this Pat?
PR: 'Tis the people you're with Dónal, to be honest with you. The performances in matches, you can look at it from wins and losses and all of that, but it's when the team really, really plays for you. That's our key, that they represent the jersey really, really hard and we get great enjoyment out of that as a management group.
You know yourself, you're involved in loads of teams, sometimes some of your friends are your old friends that you don't see as much, but I'm very lucky that the people I have with me have been with me from the Under-20s days. A lot of the lads that are still involved in the back-room team were with me when I was with Kieran (Kingston) in 2016 and '17 (when Ryan was a selector). We get on great, and there's great enjoyment out of that. My kids as well are at a great age, they get a good buzz out of it, my family get a good buzz out of it. We all lived the dream as a player, and now we're getting to maybe live our dreams through the players at the moment.
DÓC: It seems such a demanding role now. You're responsible for the players, you're also responsible for a big management team. We had a common friend that would have always advised us that you've to be good to yourself before you can be good to anybody else. How is Pat Ryan in this managerial role good to himself?
PR: I suppose the most important thing is you've great people with you that share the responsibility, share the work load. Obviously I'm front and centre of it. Sometimes I get too much credit, and then sometimes I get too much abuse maybe. From my point of view I've a brilliant wife at home, brilliant family, brilliant structure in that way and that makes life really easy. In one way I don't get myself worked up at being involved as manager of Cork. I think I can keep myself very level headed.
As players, we measured our self worth an awful lot in how we were playing and stuff like that. But I think once I got into management it was always about the players. I don't measure my self worth in how Cork are going or how they're not going. I think that's helped me in the good days and the bad days. 'Tis a huge work load, we all know that, but if you look at any club chairman around the county in Cork... they're doing as much if not more than me, not maybe getting the same limelight that I get - even though I don't really want the limelight that much! I'm happy in the background. These are things you've to get through you know?
DÓC: And the good days. How do you manage those good days?
PR: As I said, you try not to get get too high and too low. You try and move on. It's probably the next day if you're sitting down with the lads and you're having a pint or a bottle of beer together, that satisfaction that you've done the job well, that was huge for us as a group. There's great camaraderie, great fun, great slagging, which is vital in what we're doing. At the same time you've to be professional when you're professional, when you're on you're on, and when you're not we try and make sure it's an enjoyable group to be around.
DÓC: That chemistry seems so healthy between the management and the players. And that's not always easy. I've been in enough dressing rooms to know that that's a hard balance to strike. How are you striking that balance?
PR: You try to be as honest as you can. Sometimes you're having tough conversations with fellas. I was one of those fellas that was in and out of the team when we were playing together. They're tough times but I know what fellas are going through in that. I think that helps me. At the same time it's hard to keep telling a fella that's going well in training that... d'you know they might be up against a Rob Downey or up against an Alan Connolly or whoever you want to talk about, they can't get ahead of them and they're flying, it's hard to have those conversations.
Look I think everybody's buying into the group, buying into what we're doing, there's a great buzz around Cork hurling and it's great to be part of it. In fairness to the players they're really making everybody in the 38 feel part of it. It's very player-driven at the moment, and that's vital. As I keep saying, it's their team, we're here to facilitate it, that's what I believe.
I was lucky enough to play with yourself and other brilliant players. The Brian Corcorans, the Diarmuid O'Sullivans, the Ben O'Connors, the Joe Deanes, all those fellas that were brilliant players. And they all led from the front themselves. We'd brilliant managers at the time and brilliant fellas involved, but if you don't have the players that are leading and driving it, no manager will be good enough to do it on his own.
DÓC: The players are still connected to the public. They're all going to work, they're in college, they're in school and so on. How do you manage that in terms of just making sure they're focused in such a hurling-mad place?
PR: I suppose when we come down we try not to stress them out too much in what we're doing, We try and really narrow down our focus as regards to a tactical approach, a video analysis approach. But look, the game's the game. The best hurling team, the team that has the most skill, wins the All-Irelands. That's always been the case, that will always be the case. You might have the best tactical approach, you might be the best physically conditioned, you might be the fastest team in the country but if you're not the team with the best skill and the best hurlers, and playing the best brand of hurling, you're not going to win.
That's what we focus on with the lads. It's very hard when they're away with their colleagues but I think our lads are mature enough, they're at it a while now, a good few of them. Younger guys kind of get on with it a bit more, but I think the key for us is that when fellas are injury free, they're playing well, their confidence is high, they feel that they have trust in each other, trust in the management team, I think all those things can be covered.
"The greatest young people that we have in the country are GAA players, GAA county players."
DÓC: The game is the game, I like that one. You were always very thoughtful when it came to the game, always very opinionated, confident, really interesting to talk to about the game, all the time. There's a lot of talk about what's changed in the game. What things are still the same?
PR: As I said, the team with the highest skill level wins the All-Irelands. That's my opinion. I suppose there was a lot of narrative with the great Limerick team that they were big and they were strong, and they had all this extra physicality. They were the best hurling team. That's the key. Clare were the best hurling team last year. They had the best levels of skill and we analysed it afterwards. We looked at all the skill acquisitions that we didn't take part in, that we didn't do properly. They performed them at a higher level than we did last year.
The main thing about the game is being with players. That's what we all love when we finish playing is being around players, being around the group. They make you younger, they're in great form. They're great days. You remember the days coming out to Páirc Uí Chaoimh yourself. They were special days for us when we were together. We're back in Páirc Uí Chaoimh now a lot at the moment. Coming into Páirc Uí Chaoimh and being able to train inside here, they are really, really special. Fellas are buzzing coming in at the moment.
DÓC: You've done all those things as a player, travelled that journey, have all the medals. What has changed over the years?
PR: I suppose the social media side of it. That side of it, I think that can be tough on players at times. I think we need to be cognisant of that side of mental health, as regards that we're dealing with amateur players. I often say to our lads inside - and I don't want to denigrate any other sport or anything like that - but the greatest young people that we have in the country are GAA players, GAA county players. They're giving of themselves for nothing. You see the excitement that they're giving, what they're doing for kids, we see it in Cork, but it's happening everywhere. You look at what Limerick have gone through, what Clare went through last year, you see the hype that was around Tipperary when they (beat Kilkenny) and the enjoyment they had.
I think we have to just be cognisant of, in amateur days, what our fellas are doing, what our players are doing is second to none. That's not denigrating our great swimmers and rowers and athletics players and all that that are maybe getting a few expenses or whatever, but the best people in the country, the best young people in the country are GAA players, whether they're camogie players, ladies footballers, they're the best people in the country.
DÓC: A health service in itself.
PR: Without a shadow of a doubt.
DÓC: There's two weeks of a break to the All-Ireland final. It must cross your mind, how do I make sure the lads are enjoying themselves versus making sure they're in good shape leading up to the game. How do you manage that?
PR: I think you can't put loads of rules in it. I'm not in their houses. You have to trust them to be able to make those decisions and as I said, it needs to be player led. We've a lot of fellas in our back-room team and a lot of that is about how we can help the players and take the pressure of themselves, whether it's tickets, whether it's hotel rooms... all those things (will) take care of itself at five o'clock on Sunday. It's trying to take away any bit of that drama. But look, our fellas are in good form, I think we'll get through it.
DÓC: Obviously change is part and parcel of the game. You're involved three years. How have Cork changed in that period?
"We've fellahs coming out of college now that never saw Cork winning an All-Ireland. That's unheard of."
PR: I got a very highly-motivated group of men when I came in. I thought Kieran and his group, with Sully - our great friend 'the Rock' - had left me with a team that was really, really motivated. Very simple: we got better players in. We've had a really good conveyor belt of Under-20s and minors and stuff like that. In fairness to the older lads they embraced that. I'm not too sure maybe they embraced it all the time because as new players come in, you want to be playing. Our lads embraced it, and it was something we spoke about that these lads were going to give our lads the opportunity to win medals and compete and get to All-Ireland finals.
We got really, really close, but that was driven by the players. The players got really, really close. Once you have better players it builds competition, and that compeition really took off. In fairness, Donal O'Rourke is a brilliant coach, we were lucky to get him. He played with me at Sars, he's been involved around the scene here, he's done a fantastic job with our guys, lives and breathes the thing, and he's made a huge difference to what way we want go. Similar with Ian Jones, our strength and conditioning has made a huge difference to what we want to do.
But look, all the time, it only gets better if the players get better.
DÓC: It's 20 years since we won an All-Ireland senior hurling title. Does that add a weight to yourself, to the team?
PR: It doesn't add a weight. It's an annoyance really, to be honest with you. When I first got involved with the Under-20s, we hadn't won a minor title, we hadn't won an Under- 20 title. You were involved in teams then and we did loads of those things, there was a lot of work going on in the background.
It was to get the negativity off the pages. There was enough negativity, whether it was about the stadium, whether it was about we haven't won this, we haven't won that. Just get back to talking about hurling, get back to talking about games, not what we hadn't won. We've ticked a lot of boxes in those areas. It's kind of a phrase I hate actually, ticking a lot of boxes, but look, 20 years is too long. I heard people talking about that Tipperary hadn't been in Croke Park since 2019. That's only six years ago!
My oldest fella is 18 - never seen Cork winning an All-Ireland. We've fellas coming out of college now that never saw Cork winning an All-Ireland. That's unheard of. It's too long for the GAA in general anyway. We all want to get every county winning. I don't think anybody wants a monopoly of it. We all want every county to have the success and the great days the likes of Limerick have had, Dublin, Kilkenny, Kerry, Clare last year.
Every county, every supporter, every child should get to see their own countyman go up and lift the Liam MacCarthy or the Sam Maguire or whether it's a camogie player or ladies football player as well.
DÓC: There's always something special when Cork and Tipp meet in anything. There's obviously a very storied competition between both counties. What does it mean for you?
PR: If you go back to our days, when we played together we managed to beat Tipp in a Munster Under-20 final. Going up to Thurles, everybody loves going to Thurles. Sometimes when we're playing at home here to Tipp you'd nearly prefer to be playing away. Everybody loves it, everybody goes. Great place, great people, really, really good GAA people. You see how they've rallied around Tipperary. There's been a huge swell of support for them. I don't think there's been any bit of negativity like there was last year towards them. Their hype train is well and truly going I can tell you.
DÓC: Anthony Daly spoke very well about the speech you gave in the Clare dressing-room after last year's All-Ireland final. What did that feel like, walking down through the steps of the Hogan Stand, walking down that corridor going into a dressing-room where you would have seen things happening that you would have dreamed about would have been happening in the Cork dressing-room?
PR: It kind of caught me off guard when I took over as the manager at inter-county that you didn't go in after matches. Every championship match, normally you'd go in afterwards and commiserate, and it just didn't happen at inter-county. I suppose I hadn't thought about what I would do after the All-Ireland final.
Look, obviously I was disappointed after the All-Ireland final, but I was really, really proud of our fellas and I just felt I had to go in and say something to Clare. I think that's what would have been done traditionally. You have to man up when you're after being beaten. Clare had given everything that day; we had given everything that day. There was only a puck of a ball in it. To be honest with you, even when I'm standing in front of the players, I don't really make up speeches or have it written down what I'm doing, I just try and speak from what comes into my head.
Sometimes it gets a bit muddled, maybe like today. It's just more what comes into my head. The one thing I remember saying to the Clare fellas was not to drink too much that night because they're special nights, you need to be able to enjoy it. There'll be plenty of time on the Wednesdays and Thursdays for having a few pints, but that Sunday after an All-Ireland, that Monday after an All-Ireland, being able to remember it, knowing where you were, knowing who you were talking to, knowing who were the people that were around, that's one of the things I said to them.
Look in fairness, we played against Brian Lohan. The admiration I'd have for him... I wouldn't have known Brian that well to be honest with you up to that, but the admiration I would have had (for him), the way he played, the way he carried himself, probably the best full-back ever. I thought it was vital to go in and just give our congratulations to them.
DÓC: Well it's something they obviously haven't forgotten Pat. Hopfully you won't have to do it again. I wish you the best.
PR: Cheers Dónal. Appreciate it.
