Benny McCabe and Kevin Cronin, part of a group called Grandfathers Against Racism, spoke to Ray D'Arcy on Tuesday. The group originally came together in 2018, to respond to the referendum to repeal the 8th amendment to the constitution. They met up once a week, they didn't have loudspeakers and they didn't chant, Kevin explained to Ray, they chose a location and unfurled their banner. Two years ago, the banner said, 'Grandfathers Say Yes'. The idea is that they stand silently, with the banner carrying their message. In the two weeks leading up to the referendum, they stood outside the Dáil, they stood on Grafton Street and other city centre locations. The response, Kevin said, was very gratifying. 

"I remember my daughter coming in one evening and saying, you know, 'Da, you've gone viral.'" 

Ray wondered if the fact that the men are grandfathers is significant. Kevin was sure that it was, given the traditional view of grandparents in society. 

"I thought that was particularly apt, in that grandfathers might have been considered to be old fuddy-duddys who wouldn't be thinking of change at all in sensitive legislation like that." 

Benny – the new kid on the block – only joined in the last six months or so and for him, taking a stand against racism with his fellow grandads is an honour: 

"We live in a time of chaos and unpredictability and the question becomes what kind of world are we handing on to our grandchildren. So, for me to be able to take a stand with these men, it's a privilege and an honour." 

Benny has worked in many different countries, including Cambodia, the Balkans and South Africa. 

"So I've seen what happens when this thing gets out of control, when our brothers and sisters are seen as other, as different, as dangerous, as threats. So I'm aware of that." 

The killing of George Floyd in the US has had a galvanising effect on people and organisations across the world, but for Benny, the issue with racism is closer to home: 

"I think what's happening in the United States now is becoming very visible. It was always there. Now it's becoming visible. But for me, it's what's happening in Ireland is the issue." 

When the group arrive at their chosen spot, they unfurl their banner and stand silently for an hour. In general, Benny says, the reaction from the public is very good. And, although the pandemic restrictions have lessened the group's numbers – not everyone can get to the city centre – they plan to continue their campaign. Benny and fellow group member Ronan, were out today at the base of the spire on Dublin's O'Connell Street.  

To listen to the full chat between Ray and Kevin and Benny, go here.

Niall Ó Sioradáin