As her new RTÉ2 show United FC arrives on screens, we speak to The Traitors Ireland winner Vanessa Ogbonna about feeling seen after the show aired, why she believes the women received heavier scrutiny, how football shaped her sense of self, and becoming more at ease at being called a role model.
Vanessa Ogbonna has been thinking about her childhood "more than ever" over these last couple of months.
In September, the 29-year-old presenter and content creator won the first Irish version of the reality series alongside fellow Faithful Oyin Adeyemi and Kelley Higgins. In the semi-final of the show, she spoke about growing up in direct provision after moving to Tramore, Co Waterford, from Lagos, Nigeria, at the age of six.
Speaking to RTÉ Entertainment ahead of her new show, United FC, coming to RTÉ2, Ogbonna says the public reaction prompted a period of self-reflection.
"Everybody's questioned the significance of me mentioning living in direct provision, but for me, it was never really a thing of significance, it was just part of my story." she says. "I guess because it's such a hot topic in Ireland right now, I think that's why it's resonated with a lot of people."
She thinks there was so much interest because most people in Ireland "don't have access to people in direct provision".
"In the same way you don't have access to them, they don't have access to the regular community for the most part," she says.
Ogbonna describes moving to Ireland with her parents and her brother Emmanuel as a big adventure. Although there were moments where she felt a little different, she says she never struggled with a desire to belong.
After trying various different activities, including a short stint at Irish dancing, Ogbonna ended up getting into football. "My brother started football on his own and that was the first thing we ever did separately, and obviously I wasn't having that," she laughs. As a "naturally quite athletic" child, her love for the game came instantly.
"Football was that thing that I didn't have to think about," she says. "[It was] a very massive part of identity for me and it was essentially where all my confidence came from.
"When you live in a small town, everybody's at the football club and at the athletics and at sports within school as well - it was just this ecosystem of football transcending the whole time. In Tramore the football club was massive, it was a pinpoint for community and for me to integrate."
Asked if her ability on the pitch helped her become part of the tight-knit community, she jokes that it gave her "notions".
"I would just milk it and carry all of my medals and trophies to every single classroom."
"I didn't really see it as anything abnormal at the time, because I wasn't made to feel abnormal. If I got in trouble, I got in trouble like everybody else, if I did well, I was praised like everybody else, there was no special treatment, or unfair treatment. The special treatment came from football."
When she thinks back on spending eight years in direct provision, she says she doesn't remember much apart from "playing, and playing football - sport was such a massive part of it". However, the Dublin-based presenter says the experience has shaped how she perceives her home now.
"You couldn't really invite people over for birthdays, or go to your friend's house for dinner after school. Nobody came to my house.
"My house is quite sacred to me. I think that was probably a subconscious thing from growing up in direct provision."
To this day, Ogbonna still has a deep connection to Tramore AFC. "I can still call on them if I needed anything. It's just the way the club is, whatever they can do, they will do," she explains.
"Most people who play end up coaching and giving back, and you end up spending so much time there. Anytime I'm home I pop down. It is that significant, consistent, positive presence, and I think that's what's needed for any child. That's what the club was for me."
Her football career ended earlier than expected after injury and being diagnosed with Lupus, an incurable autoimmune disease. She says she had to grieve the loss of her sporting identity more than once.
"You need to figure out a way where life has to be better than just what things were. I was forced to find joy and find happiness in life now, because that's all I have. You can't live your life on what was."
Presenting the RTÉ Kids docuseries United FC is a "perfect segue" for the former football star as there "aren't a lot of avenues for people who don't play the actual sport".
Filming with Irish Rugby Sevens star Jordan Conroy brought some unexpected emotion.
"We watched the first episode and everybody was in tears after, but not because it's sad - we were all so proud, it was so gratifying. It is a kid's show, but adults will see the deeper topics. It's quite profound at times and it's literally just a football show!"
The show brings together 15 teenagers from diverse Irish backgrounds as Ogbonna and Conroy train them in the lead-up to a big tournament. She had to put her naturally competitive nature to the side.
"I came in with such a footballing head, thinking of training sessions, making sure they actually play football, they win... But I quickly had to leave that at the door because there's so much else going on."
One of her biggest surprises was the difference in confidence between the boys and girls.
"The girls were more nervous, they weren't as confident.
"The girls are basing their value off the boys and off the boys' presence. That was something that was very shocking for me. It's not how I grew up."
Ogbonna attributes the lack of confidence in part to the pressures of the modern-day world.
"Kids from a young age right now are being told who they are, there's so much unsolicited information." she says.
"I felt like people were taking on values that I don't think are necessarily theirs. But you don't know that when you're young - you're just a sponge, and you're taking in whatever the world is telling you."
The show also raised conversations around femininity for Ogbonna, something she says was "very new to me".
"When I was playing football, I would probably describe myself as choosing to be an athlete or choosing to be a girl. There was no both.
"The girls now are wearing lashes, doing their makeup, they're making sure that they look nice, but that doesn't actually impede their talent. Growing up, it would have been, if you're focusing on makeup then you don't really care about the sport as much."
Watching the teenagers grow was a highlight.
"When they're seeing themselves scoring goals, they're seeing themselves put in tackles - you see the joy on their own faces, and nothing can replace that."
Since hanging up her football boots, Ogbonna is frank about one of the challenges of adapting to life off the pitch. "The second I left football I had to become a normal girl, and that looks completely different," she says.
"In sport, confidence, being outspoken and directness are valued. As a woman, it's not always seen positively when women speak up.
"Outside of [sports], if you act like that, it's almost seen like you can be aggressive or overly assertive or imposing your will on people. I've had to learn to balance those skills and attributes, that were positive in football, I've had to figure out how to feminize those things."
During The Traitors Ireland, comments about her being 'aggressive' at the round tables were raised a number of times by contestants and viewers.
"The worst part about it is that I was always anticipating a moment like that. There's this stereotype of angry Black women in TV in general - and that was something that I was very much not going to be, because I know that that's not me.
"I think it's really interesting when you watch it back, if anything, during The Traitors I'm actually probably the silliest person. I'm not involved in gameplay very early on - I'm falling, I'm saying 'deadass', I'm actually just on vibes! So it's so interesting to see people saying I'm aggressive or intimidating."
She chose not to engage with much of the online discussion. "It's nice to see people picking up on those things themselves because I don't feel like it's my job to explain what a microaggression is."
Ogbonna also reflects on how the female contestants were treated generally.
"The girls, overall, got mad scrutiny. Even with the 'mean girls' comment. There's the woman side of that and then there's being a minority on top of that, whereas the men were literally pretty much jumping over to the table attacking each other and nobody had a problem with that."
She is typically astute in her dissection of why she believes that was the case.
"I think it just exposes how we view people in society. As much as it is a game, it is a social construct, it highlights the narratives that we operate in. I am impressed about how much conversation there was about it, because I didn't think anybody would care," she says.
"Irish people don't like talking about uncomfortable topics. We want to beat around the bush as much as possible before we get to the point. But people brought these things up themselves. I felt seen."
Her rising profile has brought another challenge: the idea of being a role model.
"I think it's such a big pressure, I want to be, but I don't want to be. I'm 29, so I'm not a child, but I don't have any responsibilities - my responsibility is me. Whereas now my responsibility is to the people who bought into my story. I don't want to let them down.
"I was at a Shelbourne FC game and there was an under-10s girls team and they just kept following me around. I think that was the first time that I was like, 'These are the people that you will leave an impact on, they are the people who will care if anything goes wrong'."
She is ambivalent about people finding her life story inspirational.
"It used to really annoy me. When people would tell me my story is inspirational, I'm like, 'Okay, well, it sucks for me, but I'm glad you guys could get something out of it!'," she laughs.
"Everybody goes through things, and that's why people find a connection in it. You may not have been through direct provision, but people can understand the importance of a home.
"The more I've told my story, the better I've got at articulating that and understanding the power that's in it. It's not a sob story kind of thing - it's finding joy and finding strength in that."
Ogbonna is great company - relaxed, funny, articulate and quick to laugh, despite the sometimes heavy subject matter we've covered.
"It's hard because it gets so tiring talking about deep stuff all the time, I'm just on vibes most of the time, I'm not a serious person for the most part," she says with a laugh.
"But there's things that are really important and they need to be talked about. There's only so much we can do, whether that's in Ireland or globally, but it's just doing what you can.
"If all I can do is make a TV show and make an impact on these kids' lives, then that's my impact for now."
United FC airs Thursdays at 5.30pm on RTÉ2 and RTÉ Player.
