EMERGENCY SERVICES FOR THE DEAF - DAY TWO

Joe Duffy: 51551 is our text number. Now yesterday people listening to the programme would have heard how it unfolded when this issue was raised on Monday indeed, about people who are deaf, and there's 185,000 people in the country who were deaf or have seriously impaired hearing, have wanted this service of being able to contact the emergency services through text, which text has become a lifeline and over the programme yesterday we developed a way, thanks to a number of people who contacted us of actually communicating with people who have severe hearing difficulties or are profoundly deaf. And what we did yesterday was, was through g-mail, some people can obviously speak because they went deaf later in life, and through g-mail, we were able to ask them the questions, you heard that discussion ongoing, and now we have been contacted by Carmel Lynch and Carmel is profoundly deaf, but she is with her daughter Susan and Susan is going to interpret and ask the questions through sign language to her mother. So Carmel good afternoon.

Carmel Lynch (Susan Signing): Hi it's Susan here, how are you.

Joe Duffy: Ok Susan. And your mother is with you?

Carmel Lynch (Susan Signing): She's with me here yeah.

Joe Duffy: Ok, Camel can you tell me, the story you want to tell us about your own experience of trying to contact 999 for your Grandchild?

Carmel Lynch (Susan Signing): Yeah I certainly can. I remember a night many years ago when my Granddaughter Ayesha almost died on her during the night as she was babysitting. She had an epileptic fit and I walked into the room and she was blue in the face. There was nothing I could do. She wasn't breathing. I had to carry her to the next door neighbour, hammer down the door at 1am.

Joe Duffy: Hmm, hmm.

Carmel Lynch (Susan Signing): For them to dial 999 to bring her back to life.

Joe Duffy: So what difference Carmel would a 999 text service make to you?

Carmel Lynch (Susan Signing): It would make all the difference. It would make me feel safer at home as I live alone.

Joe Duffy: And you raise other issues as well, say for example contacting taxi's?

Carmel Lynch (Susan Signing): Yes. The issue of Taxi's and Deaf People they cannot ring taxi's. Taxi offices have fax machines. But when she faxes them they're never turned on. My deaf friends rely on families to ring for taxi's. I have the text numbers of private taxi's. But these only work during the day. They don't usually answer at night time.

Joe Duffy: And you want to raise the issue of privacy for Deaf People?

Carmel Lynch (Susan Signing): Yes that's another issue. That I need an interpreter to go to hospital appointments. So somebody else would know my business and my illnesses.

Joe Duffy: Ok stay there for a sec if you would Carmel. I want to allow Damien Owens to Communicate with us now. Damien was in contact with us after yesterday's programme. And he is with his signer Fiona Ward, so through Fiona I'm saying hello to, hello and good afternoon to Damien.

Damien Owens (Fiona Signing): Hello, hi Joe.

Joe Duffy: How are you Fiona, and thanks for this and thank Damien as well. Damien would you simply like to tell us why you contacted us and the story about your children?

Damien Owens (Fiona Signing): Well I'm contacting you for my family.

Joe Duffy: Hmm, hmm.

Damien Owens (Fiona Signing): Because myself and my wife are deaf, I have three children, three hearing and but one has a disability. I had to call three times for emergencies. We have a special panic button in our house, and so when there's a panic we press the emergency button. Because Sasha has seizures. So Eircom will phone us back, asking us what is the emergency. But, and will they send an ambulance. And they want a password. But that's not really a great idea, because we're deaf. So and if the children are in school, we can't communicate, so it's just a lack of communication.

Joe Duffy: And Damien . . .

Damien Owens (Fiona Signing): And there was one time, sorry, the ambulance never turned up.

Joe Duffy: That was because your son had phoned 999, but there seemed to be some mix up?

Damien Owens (Fiona Signing): Yes, with Eircom Phonewatch and my son Adam. They were asking what's the password? And Adam mentioned oh whatever the word was, and they were like ok thanks bye, and they hung up. And then there was no sign of an ambulance. There was nothing.

Joe Duffy: And what difference Damien do you think a 999 text messaging service, as we heard . . .

Damien Owens (Fiona Signing): A big benefit, big huge benefit to us. Especially myself. Because I'm deaf, and it's not possible to use the phone. So therefore, if I'm on my own in the house, with my daughter Sasha, how am I supposed to contact the emergency services? So I could text, it would be a huge benefit.

Joe Duffy: Ok stay with us if you would Damien, and I'll also just remind people that yesterday the idea was brought forward that people who can't, who are deaf but can't speak, would be able to, and we did it, would be able to engage in the programme through g-mail, which is what happened. So if you know people who are profoundly deaf, and wish to participate maybe you could text them or communicate with them, that that is available. And also that today's programme, and indeed yesterday's programme is, there's a full transcript of it for people who are deaf, so they can participate, and be part of the discussion. Colm Skeritt good afternoon to you.

Colm Skeritt: Good afternoon Joe.

Joe Duffy: 51551 is our text number by the way. Colm your wife is deaf.

Colm Skeritt: That's right yeah.

Joe Duffy: Ok and you contacted us why?

Colm Skeritt: I just am sick and tired of this going on all the time. My wife Louise, as I said, is hard of hearing also. Now we contact each other every day through 3G. I take my lunch here in work and I phone my wife, and I sit down and is sign to my wife through the new Vodafone 3G which it's brilliant. Like I can see my wife from here in my own office. And we sign away to each other for about half an hour.

Joe Duffy: Brilliant.

Colm Skeritt: And I can't understand why Eircom can't have the same technology for themselves. And she's out in Sixmilebridge, she's nearly ten miles away from me. And it's like as if she's sitting in the office with me. And why can't Eircom have the same technology? Like it's so simple and easy to have. And it's so easy to use. So why can't they have it?

Joe Duffy: Well everyone hasn't got a 3G phone for a start, but most people it seems now have a mobile phone which is where this all began on Monday when people were saying that we all have mobile phones. Texting has been a revolution for a lot of people. But a seismic shift for people who are deaf or hard of hearing, the difference texting has made to them is just phenomenal. So texting would make a difference.

Colm Skeritt: Texting is . . .

Joe Duffy: You say there was an incident with one of your daughters?

Colm Skeritt: Well my daughter, well one of my daughters she had an epileptic fit there about three years ago. And just by luck I was only about two minutes down the road and my wife texted me, just to come back, so I just ran up the road. Now if I had been about ten minutes more I'd have been on the bus and I would have been inside in town, and my wife would have been stuck outside in the middle of Clare, with no access to a phone, being able to ring anybody herself, and no neighbours. No emergency services, no nothing. But by chance I was there myself. And I was able to ring the emergency services. My wife she wouldn't have been able to contact anybody and she would have been stuck at home, with three children, and unable to contact the emergency services herself and stuck with three children, and nobody there to help her. And like it's just not on. It's just the way it is in Ireland at the moment. And like as you said, there are over 100,000 Deaf People, nearly 100,000 Deaf People there, and they're just not being recognised in Ireland at the moment.

Joe Duffy: And you say also even going to the cinema?

Colm Skeritt: Well no subtitles. That was also brought up yesterday. And just one other thing Joe. On Sunday's in Ireland, there's a programme called Hands On, all these issues are brought up every Sunday.

Joe Duffy: Hmm, hmm.

Colm Skeritt: It's on at quarter to eleven. These issues are brought up and the they're repeated literally every Sunday. And it's starting again I think just some time in April, around about. I think just at the very end of April. It's on every Sunday morning around about quarter to eleven, and these issues are discussed. And it's subtitled, it's the speech and it's signed also. So these issues again will be raised again sometime around the end of April.

Joe Duffy: And as are, subtitled, as are a lot of programme. But you, on RTE I know people made an issue yesterday about TV3 not subtitling their news and their, they subtitle Coronation Street which the buy in or whatever. But you make the point that when you met your wife, you decided to learn sign language?

Colm Skeritt: Ah well out of respect for my wife, I decided to learn to sign. Now that was nearly 17 years ago, and now well out of love now for sign language, I love doing it, and it's a lovely language to learn. And it's just great like. Seventeen years later it's just great to have it. And now I just see it as my second language. So it's just great, something else to have. So many different trends.

Joe Duffy: Stay there for a sec if you would Colm. I want to go back to Susan who's with her mother Carmel. Carmel is profoundly deaf. Susan can I just ask you directly as the daughter.

Susan Lynch: Yes you can.

Joe Duffy: The daughter of, Colm is obviously the husband of somebody who's deaf. As a daughter of someone who is deaf, what was that like growing up?

Susan Lynch: Em growing up, I didn't see it as any different, because I didn't know any different. It was hard because even from a small age we had to be her ears. We have to be her voice. And those days it was, the hadn't got the technology that they do now. So it was a lot harder. Basic things, even the doorbell ringing. We could be standing outside as young children waiting, you know waiting hours literally for my mother to answer the door. You know it was very hard growing up. But as I say we didn't know any different.

Joe Duffy: Ok I want to bring Catherine in. Catherine good afternoon.

Catherine: Hi Joe how are you?

Joe Duffy: You contacted us. Your seven year old daughter?

Catherine: Yeah that's right.

Joe Duffy: Is losing . . .

Catherine: My seven year old daughter has a profound hearing loss, and she is losing it slowly. She is on the cochlear implant list at the moment.

Joe Duffy: And how did you realise she was losing her hearing?

Catherine: Well she was my first baby, so you're kind of green when you have your first Child. So I just went to the health nurse and I said I thought there was an issue, that she wasn't speaking. So I was referred from my health nurse to my local hospital and then I was asked am I VHI or Medical Card? And I had VHI, so I went privately to a consultant, and for about four and a half years he told me there was nothing at all wrong with her, but I didn't agree with him, so I got a second opinion off another doctor, and he thought there was a problem. So I left where I'm living in Cork and I was told Beaumont Hospital was the place to do, so I got a referral letter and went to Beaumont and they tested here and they said very sorry, she has severe hearing loss, and that's how I found out at four and a half.

Joe Duffy: And what was your . . .

Catherine: From eighteen months to four and a half, she had no hearing aids, no nothing.

Joe Duffy: And what was your reaction to that?

Catherine: Well I was in shock in one sense, but I was happy in another sense that I knew what the problem was because I didn't send her to school because I knew where was something. But I was in severe shock. And then the reality hits like, everything that you have to go and get for them, and what the future holds for them, and everything changes. You know you're kind of grief stricken saying you know what's going to happen. Secondary school, where are you going to send them. Because there's no secondary school in Cork for the Deaf at the moment. Now they're talking about setting one up on Bishopstown. But they're just talking about it at the moment. The only place is in Dublin. So if want to send her to secondary school for the Deaf I have to go to Dublin.

Joe Duffy: And you only get one shot at sending your child to secondary school.

Catherine: That's it.

Joe Duffy: So you've got to em . . .

Catherine: I have to make the choice, and I can't go back on the choices I've made later on. So what I do now you know.

Joe Duffy: And how does she get on in school at the moment, with her difference?

Catherine: Oh she loves school. She goes to a special school in Cork. It's St Columba's with Facilities for the Deaf, she goes to. And they have, em she goes mainstream class in St Columba's. So she loves school, loves it.

Joe Duffy: Ok stay with us if you would for a sec Catherine.

Catherine: Yes, no problem.

Joe Duffy: I want to say Susan, I want to say to Carmel thank you very much for participating.

Carmel Lynch (Susan Signing): Thank you very much.

Joe Duffy: Ok can I, would you mind if I asked you Carmel, how have you managed to survive financially, given that you've young, you've children and were also profoundly deaf since birth. Did you work outside the home?

Carmel Lynch (Susan Signing): Eh yeah she worked outside the home.

Joe Duffy: Ok.

Carmel Lynch (Susan Signing): For many years, plus deserted wives benefit.

Joe Duffy: Ok, ok, Carmel thanks indeed. Damien is still there through Fiona.

Damien Owens (Fiona Signing): Hi yes.

Joe Duffy: Ok Damien are there any final points, finally before I let you go, are there any other issues you want to raise and take this opportunity to raise them please?

Damien Owens (Fiona Signing): Well basically, what are they going to do now? Will they have a text service? That's just really what I want to know.

Joe Duffy: Ok a text emergency service, ok. I'll return to this. Thanks indeed Damien, thanks Carmel and back after this break.

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Joe Duffy: As I mentioned earlier, just to remind people for this segment, and we may come back to it, but for this segment we were getting calls from people who were profoundly deaf through their signers or through e-mail or text. Joe contacted us. Joe good afternoon, and joe@rte.ie is the e-mail here. But Joe you contacted because you're daughter is profoundly deaf, and you want to raise a number of issues as well.

Joe: That's right Joe and thanks very much. The first thing is I think it's a lame excuse that they can't put in the text messaging. Because 99% of text messages are on real time, and it's working well in Northern Ireland and Hands On done a programme about it there early last year, and that seemed to be working well, you know. When it's working in other countries, there should be no excuse why it shouldn't work here.

Joe Duffy: Ok.

Joe: Now the other thing is that I say is that sign language is my daughters first language. As it is with all deaf, the majority of deaf people. But she cannot do a Leaving Cert, a Leaving Cert or a Junior Cert in sign language studies. She doesn't do Irish.

Joe Duffy: Hmm, hmm.

Joe: So she hasn't got a second language. She doesn't do French, German or any of them. But, so she's losing out on a language. Now her first language, like my first language is English. Her first language is Sign Language. And I could do, if I was in school I could do, I done my Leaving Cert in English, but she cannot do anything in a second language. Because there is nothing available in sign language, in sign language studies. You know if you were in, if you came in from the EEC, any EEC country into this country here, you could do, for example if you were Polish, and came in here and was going to school here, you would be able to do a Polish subject, you know you would be able to do Polish in school.

Joe Duffy: Ok and is Irish Sign Language Joe, bear with me, is it different to other countries?

Joe: Yeah there is . . .

Joe Duffy: Other countries use of sign language?

Joe: Yeah well there's varying differences in Sign Language between England and Ireland and that you know.

Joe Duffy: Hmm, hmm.

Joe: In the way they use their hands and that. But do you know Deaf People can communicate very well between each other in that way.

Joe Duffy: Ok. And is there, in terms of Irish studies and studying Irish literature, is that open to her to do through sign language?

Joe: Yeah, but it's the subject itself Joe, you know we'll say Irish is a subject. Now why isn't sign language a subject.

Joe Duffy: I know your argument, I know where you, so you're saying that because sign language is my language, just the same way as English or Irish or Polish might be my language. I should be examined on my use of sign language.

Joe: Exactly.

Joe Duffy: My ability with sign language. And that in itself would become a subject. Now would that in itself become contentious Joe?

Joe: In what way Joe?

Joe Duffy: In that some people would say well, it encourages competition between people who use sign language? How did you do in your Leaving Cert in sign language?

Joe: Well no, no, why would it? It's the same, it would be the same as any other subject. Do you know, it is in relation to school and to going on to third level education, it's an extra subject. And it would also broaden the availability for people like myself and like other kids, like her brothers and sisters, to do sign language studies. And to open it up and make everything more, make the Deaf Community more accessible to the hearing community, you know.

Joe Duffy: Ok because I know people and we heard them yesterday, people who are not deaf, but who are learning sign language at the moment.

Joe: Yeah, yeah.

Joe Duffy: To communicate. So that's, ok.

Joe: We sent in, the Galway Parents of Hearing Impaired Children sent in a proposal to the Minister for Education two years ago, and they have no intention of bringing it on as a subject.

Joe Duffy: Ok and to the issue that was raised initially on Monday, the 999 texting service, the absence of, even though as we heard it is available in Northern Ireland. How does it affect your daughter?

Joe: Well it hasn't affected her yet, because she hasn't had to make a 999 call yet.

Joe Duffy: Thank God yeah.

Joe: But the worry is that if she did have to make a 999 call, she would have to contact someone like myself or some adult. And do you know that's the delaying time. And it would be serious for her, you know.

Joe Duffy: Ok, ok, thanks indeed Joe, thanks Catherine. I want to go to Caroline, 51551 text, Caroline is in Meath, Caroline good afternoon.

Caroline: Good afternoon Joe.

Joe Duffy: Your son he's eight years old and he's profoundly deaf?

Caroline: He's profoundly deaf, but he has a cochlear implant now, and he's now in mainstream school. And it's working extremely well at the minute. He, we did do a little bit of sign language with him initially when we discovered he was deaf, but it's never going to be our main language. And we found it difficult ourselves to incorporate into the deaf society, the deaf world as well. So we went forward with the cochlear implant and Peter went into school, and has been doing very well. And as you were saying yesterday, you realised the effort it takes to communicate and to get everything up and running, and Peter in school has had support with a SNA, and he's been doing extremely well. But with cutbacks and what not his SNA has been cut at school as well. And he's really struggling.

Joe Duffy: That's a Special Needs Assistant.

Caroline: Special Needs Assistant yes. Because he has to decipher everything that he hears, he has to understand it, and he has to learn, he's losing out. Because he's working 100 times harder than the rest of the children. And he's letting a lot of stuff then pass over him because he's trying to concentrate on what he's just heard. And then teacher may have moved on to the next subject. So that he's finding it extremely difficult at the moment.

Joe Duffy: And you say Caroline he's finding it difficult to integrate with the Deaf Community?

Caroline: Well he has a bit of sign language. But we're, it isn't our first language here in the house. And we would never be fluent in it.

Joe Duffy: And how do you communicate with him?

Caroline: He can hear us, he is on a one to one basis now because of his implant he has quite good hearing.

Joe Duffy: Ok.

Caroline: But in a crowd or when there's a few other people around, unless he's facing you, he will hear some of the words, but he'll have missed some and he tries to lip read as well to catch the rest of it.

Joe Duffy: Ok Caroline I want to do, thanks indeed Caroline. I want to go to Vivian. Vivian good afternoon.

Vivian: Joe good afternoon. Joe thank you very much for taking my call. I'm just listening to the frustration of all these parents. I'm an older parent here. So I've been down the road, so I could understand their frustration. You don't change a system. I've been on Boards of Managements and everything, but I'm so disgusted with this country at the moment, and what has happened with the Deaf. They're not recognised, they're not recognised as a handicapped person even, you know, even with the Government, it's just disgraceful.

Joe Duffy: Tell us the story, because you contacted us about your son Mark who is profoundly deaf.

Vivian: Yes that's right Mark, very special guy altogether. A great traveller actually, he loves travelling.

Joe Duffy: Ok tell us the issue you had with the bus pass?

Vivian: Oh yeah. I want to know why have the not got a bus pass and a medical card? You know when you look at the situation in this country at the moment, you have foreign people coming in here and they're handed a bus pass because they cannot speak the language. And you have a deaf person that can't speak a language, and they're not entitled to it.

Joe Duffy: Well tell us about your experience?

Vivian: My experience every time I apply, or Mark applies for it, we receive this form back, stating that he'd have to be an old age pensioner, he'd have to be blind, all other disabilities bar deafness. There's not a mention of deafness. So I'd like somebody to explain this to me, and I want that form changed, because to me the way this country is at the moment, it's just outrageous how they're being treated.

Joe Duffy: Ok and are you allowed appeal it? Can you . . .

Vivian: No you can't. They ask you to ring. Now they ask him to ring.

Joe Duffy: I know.

Vivian: They ask him to ring at the end of the form. Now, you know, explain this to me?

Joe Duffy: Ok and you say last week you were even worried about the bad weather and this whole thing of contacting you?

Vivian: I was terrified he was going to work in this bad weather. He stayed off two days. He's here at the moment. I thought we'd be in talking to you. But I was so terrified he'd have an accident. And he's a good little driver, very careful driver and everything. But how would he, if he got into a situation, what would happen. Like I'm 65 now. I'm so tired at the moment, trying to change things for the Deaf. As for younger parents listening to them, unfortunately I didn't hear it yesterday. And all my friends rang me. Because they adore him and you know they're kindness, and this is wonderful, it is the only thing that has helped him in life, certainly not the Government.

Joe Duffy: And you say he loves travelling. He likes travelling. How is travelling for him? He travels alone?

Vivian: He travels alone. He's been all over Europe. He's travelled to my sister and brother in law in London at fifteen. You know I had to allow him to do this, to give him independence. And I needn't tell you how I died at home. But I was listening to the last person speaking about sign language. My advice to that mother is to learn the sign language. Because it's their culture. And it will help them to relax. We tried both ways. But to me sign language is the most fantastic language. And it should be encourage everywhere, like I travelled to doctors with Mark. I had one doctor that I was in school with, a personal friend. But she retired so I was, he's in a clinic now, but these guys don't know him yet. They don't know how, people don't know how to, you know it's like you're researcher saying like what would he need a bus pass for? You know when you don't have the understanding.

Joe Duffy: Hmm, hmm.

Vivian: You know, so you know this is the greatest opportunity. And I really feel sorry for young parents of today, what they're trying to change and what they're trying to go through.

Joe Duffy: Well let's talk to one of them, thanks indeed Vivian.

Vivian: Thank you very much for taking this call.

Joe Duffy: And regards to Mark.

Vivian: Ah thank you very much, thank you.

Joe Duffy: Susan is on the line. Susan good afternoon you've a two year old son?

Susan: That's right Joe yes. Thomas is his name, and he was diagnosed profoundly deaf last May. And I just rang your researcher Joe, I just wanted to sort of make the point I was listening to your programme there, and I just wanted to make the point Joe that Thomas is entitled to a Visiting Teacher of the Deaf Service.

Joe Duffy: Ok.

Susan: And he had somebody, which she's fantastic, but she went on maternity leave at the start of December, and to date Joe we haven't heard anything from the Department of Education as regards a replacement. And I just wanted to make that point that there again there's a child that badly needs that service, and that you know it's not available or it's not being you know followed up.

Joe Duffy: And . . .

Susan: Because I'm sure, sorry Joe yes . . .

Joe Duffy: No you're ok, no you continue.

Susan: No just the fact that it's a position that somebody went on maternity leave, there should have been adequate time for them, you know to plan to put somebody in there as a replacement.

Joe Duffy: And that obviously given the nature of that, the Department would have had notice that maternity leave was coming up.

Susan: Of course yes.

Joe Duffy: Susan when did you realise your son was deaf?

Susan: Em well I was listening to another parent there earlier, it was I suppose it was a question mark about it over, since he was born, that there could have been a slight loss. But over the period of going to a public health nurse and to various other you know people and bodies, we were eventually referred to Beaumont Hospital. And there the diagnoses was made then last May. So Thomas is on the list for cochlear implant as well.

Joe Duffy: And any idea why?

Susan: Sorry?

Joe Duffy: Any idea why he's deaf?

Susan: Em no, well that's not even the issue concerning me Joe at the minute, it's more so just that he gets the adequate service from the Department of Education. And I just think that you know . . .

Joe Duffy: Ok but it's a reminder what Vivian was saying, that young people still are being born deaf?

Susan: Yes that's right.

Joe Duffy: That it's not something that's disappeared with medical advances per se.

Susan: No, no.

Joe Duffy: There's still a significant number of people in this country who are deaf or have severe difficulties with hearing.

Susan: Yeah.

Joe Duffy: So it's important for people to be conscious of that, and maybe the last few days will help them to be conscious of it?

Susan: Well I hope so, yeah, that and it's great that issues are being highlighted, because I did see that programme, because obviously when you find out your more conscious of the issue yourself. That Hands On programme, and like it just seems disgraceful that a person can't you know contact the emergency services, when as you say the problem, or the issue has been there for so long. And that you know, just I don't know, politicians or Governments or whoever, just don't seem to take it as serious, and you know, that the should, and as I say it was just that really Joe, just the issue of the Visiting Teacher for the Deaf, I just think that it's a thing that you know it should have been looked after, and as I say, Thomas is without that service now since the start of December.

Joe Duffy: Ok thanks indeed Susan and regards to Thomas as well.

Susan: Ok thanks very much Joe, ok thank you.

Joe Duffy: Thank you. 51551 is our text number. Jennifer is on the line now, and Jennifer is partially deaf, but she wants to talk on the programme. Jennifer.

Jennifer: Hi Joe.

Joe Duffy: How are you? You want to make a number of points about communication, especially with hospitals?

Jennifer: No problem. First thing I can speak to you myself because I'm actually having a loop system on my mobile phone and that's how I'm able to hear you on a one to one basis, more so than a landline phone. In regards to hospitals I have actually been diagnosed with Pulmonary Embolism which is PE, back a few years ago. At the time when I was diagnosed I actually had to get my son to run in and tell my neighbours that I was, I couldn't breath, you know with chest pains and that. Then I was taken into hospital by ambulance, my neighbour phoned the ambulance for me.

Joe Duffy: Hmm, hmm.

Jennifer: At the same time when I was diagnosed with the sickness, they actually just said to me oh it's PE, there was no actually sitting down to explain what PE meant. What caused it. How I got it. How serious it was. Now I never knew how serious it was until I actually watched Casualty. Which imagine, a programme that I actually seen on TV. Then again with the access of subtitles showing, talking about PE. That's how I realised how serious it was, and that was two years later. And to my knowledge I think this message should be brought out to people who are there, and should be made aware exactly what's going on. Not to be treated different from a hearing person, just because they're deaf, because they mightn't understand what PE means, or they mightn't understand doctors language. This is coming out in my own type of knowledge, of the way I feel of today's, as how I feel with hospitals.

Joe Duffy: Ok and Jennifer can I ask you what happened when you went with your son to hospital?

Jennifer: My neighbour actually took my son for me, because he was too young at the time to come into the hospital with me. Basically everything was kind of written down, just basic stuff. And then two of my mobile phones texting my sister, and my sister actually had to communicate with the hospital for me and text me back exactly, because I felt I wasn't getting any information. I was left sitting around for two days on my own with no information, just sitting there with medication and no explanation given to me and that was really, I'm fuming about that. And how I actually found out more information myself was, two friends of mine came into visit me and they printed off the information about Pulmonary Embolism, and that's the only way I would have known about it.

Joe Duffy: Ok and those points are well made by Jennifer. Thanks indeed Jennifer. I want to bring in Mary Traynor. Mary good afternoon.

Mary Traynor: Hi Joe how are you?

Joe Duffy: Good and yourself?

Mary Traynor: Fine Joe thank you.

Joe Duffy: Ok you want to talk about the situation that you've encountered, and mainly because of the fact that your husband has been deaf since early childhood?

Mary Traynor: That's right yes. Now he lip reads and he's actually very good at lip reading now Joe. We communicate through that.

Joe Duffy: And you say that the mobile phone is a new lease of life?

Mary Traynor: Ah Joe, absolutely. I mean I'm with my husband now like we're thirty four year married, so I was with him for four years before that, so thirty eight years Joe, and I have to tell you the difference that the text message and the mobile phone, is absolutely fantastic. It's a great lifeline like for deaf people. It gives them great independence and keeps them up to speed on all the latest gossip and news. And like while before that I would kind of have to tell him, like he couldn't use the phone. People like ourselves, like me and you and everybody else that can hear, we don't realise the little things in life that mean so much, you know. Like for example if I went away, which I often did with the girls and whatever, I'd have to talk to the children and they'd tell Eddie, you own. Where now it's great like we can text each other all the time, and the lads keep up, and the family, and I must say now people are genuinely very nice. I've found over the years people will try to help deaf people. They don't kind of understand maybe, they probably raise their voice, thinking like if they say I'm deaf they probably shout more or whatever, you know.

Joe Duffy: And you say your husband lip reads.

Mary Traynor: Yeah he's very good at lip reading, I have to say now. but the only thing is, now Joe, just for example, he can lip read very well.

Joe Duffy: Hmm, hmm.

Mary Traynor: But if somebody has a moustache it's very difficult. People wouldn't realise that.

Joe Duffy: Oh is it yeah, hmm?

Mary Traynor: And that would be difficult, you know, or he's telling me here if they had a beard.

Joe Duffy: Yeah, and he had an experience with a bus driver?

Mary Traynor: Ah that was funny Joe, I don't know whether I want to tell you that or not. Will I tell Joe?

Joe Duffy: It just highlights the whole importance of lip reading.

Mary Traynor: I know, and just yeah how important it was. It was actually forty years ago. And my husband was getting the 86 bus. And he wanted to know was it stopping in Ranelagh. And, sorry my husband is . . .

Joe Duffy: Ok.

Eddie Traynor (In the background): I couldn't understand what he was saying, without, he had no teeth.

Mary Traynor: He had no teeth in, so my husband didn't understand what he was saying, like he was mumbling. And my husband said I can't . . .

Eddie Traynor (In the background): Hold on, hold on a minute, he put his hand in his picket and put the false teeth in his mouth, so shiny, brand new teeth.

Joe Duffy: Mary how is, Eddie can, if you can communicate with Eddie, which you obviously are, he obviously understands you?

Mary Traynor: Yeah he does every word.

Joe Duffy: And how is he understanding you?

Mary Traynor: Well he lip reads.

Joe Duffy: He's lip reading you at the minute?

Mary Traynor: Yes he would, he'd lip read me. And but what he was saying was, it was so funny, he couldn't understand because he hadn't got any teeth, and he was saying that he put is hand in his pocket, took out his false teeth in a handkerchief and put them in and he siad where do you want to go, you know. So Eddie was saying are you stopping at Ranelagh, and he said, he took the teeth back out, put his thumb up, and he sais I'll look after you, I'll look after you, ha, ha. But you know . . .

Joe Duffy: So Mary can you ask Eddie there so, just he can see you speaking, what difference, if your thirty four years married you're at least in your early fifties, which is still quite young.

Mary Traynor: Thank you Joe.

Joe Duffy: But mobile phones are still relatively new to our generation.

Mary Traynor: Exactly.

Joe Duffy: We heard the younger generation of hearing impaired and profoundly deaf people have taken to it with great gusto. But for Eddie, Eddie what was it like, what difference has the mobile phone made to your life?

Mary Traynor: Yeah, Joe wants to known what difference did the mobile phone made to your life?

Eddie Traynor (In the background): It helps you know.

Mary Traynor: Yeah he just, he just finds it, he just feels completely lost without it, like you know, it's just fantastic. I just find now, like you know the simple things as I said Joe, like we would go into, we're retired now, and we would go into town maybe once a week, and Eddie likes to go around the camera shops, or whatever, as men do, and I would go off like to the ladies clothes or whatever. And we would meet up. Like before that I might say to Eddie I'll meet you at five, and I wouldn't kind of, we would go in and have so me tea, and I wouldn't really be ready to meet him at five, but now it's grand like he can say to me I'm waiting for you in such and such a place, take your time, you know. It's just, it's so hard for people to understand how important it is, you know, and I just wish more like, to have more services, sorry, set up. Other businesses and Government services could be better set up to deal with people such as the use of text messaging, and unfortunately it's not there. I mean like Eddie goes to, now the hair dresser that Eddie goes to, I'll mention his name because he's very good, no relation whatsoever, and it's Edmund Walsh, `Champs of Dunleary', and he only has to text Edmund and Edmund would be back texting him come down at such and such a time, you know. Another thing too he's very interested in cameras. And as I said he'd go into town and he goes into Con's Camera Shop, no relation whatsoever, in Wicklow Street. Maybe buying parts for his camera or whatever, and if they're not in stock they'll text him. But I can't understand why other people won't go to the trouble.

Joe Duffy: Ok, ok, and I know Eddie is totally in favour of a 999 text service as well.

Mary Traynor: Oh definitely 100%, because I'm worried Joe if I'm not around, you know the lads like wouldn't be around all the time. And like he's such an independent person, and like I mean they're so intelligent. I mean you know Deaf people like I know Eddie would love to have that independence of being able to ring 999, you know.

Joe Duffy: Ok thanks Mary and thanks Eddie.

Mary Traynor: Ok Joe, thank you.

Joe Duffy: Back after this.

Mary Traynor: Thanks for highlighting it.

Joe Duffy: Bye, bye.

Joe Duffy: And joe@rte.ie and 51551 text. We've been contacted in the discussion about texting and the difference it made to lots of people. John Donnelly is on the line. John good afternoon. You will recognise John because he is the former and much loved President of the IFA. John I didn't, I heard about it briefly, but I didn't know it had progressed. You contacted us to say that due to an illness your voice box encouraged great difficulties and things, texting has made a great difference for you. John good afternoon.

John Donnelly (Former IFA President): Good afternoon. Yeah my voice box was removed in 2005, and then those were two months I couldn't speak at all. And the texting made a huge difference to me, and that's why I was listening to your programme, and that's why I contacted you. And I used text, and am now all of the time, because you might notice my voice isn't great there now, but I don't make phone calls hardly to anybody, I use the text. And I think the programme is so important to people, you know that have speaking difficulties. It certainly kept me going when I was going through a difficult time.

Joe Duffy: And John we knew you as a very vocal President of the IFA, what was the illness that befell you?

John Donnelly (Former IFA President): I got cancer in my vocal chords in 2004 and unfortunately the treatment didn't work, and I had to have surgery. And then I suppose for someone that was used to doing a lot of talking it was, well to live was the first, that was my first priority. And you know everybody, the doctors and consultants were all very good, and I survived it, and then the fact that I was able to use the text, I could keep in touch with people all over the country. And I suppose just to give you an example of how important it was.

Joe Duffy: Hmm, hmm.

John Donnelly (Former IFA President): I was nearly two months in St James' and when people began to realise that I was at the texting and I was able to text, I got about 800 text messages. And it really, you know I can never, I couldn't explain you know how important it was, in the way it kept me going, and I could return the text messages, while I couldn't speak. So like that's what I'm saying, like you know I can fully understand, you know the value of texting and it's a pity that, you know if there are problems in relation to a telephone company or whatever you were saying there, I think you know that's very unfortunate.

Joe Duffy: Ok and the point you make is again, the other aspect of it which people, which hasn't been covered is that texting for people with other difference is important as well.

John Donnelly (Former IFA President): Yeah well you were talking about people that were deaf like. And I'm kind of coming from it from a different perspective.

Joe Duffy: Yes, ok, ok. And John your life is going on at pace I hope?

John Donnelly (Former IFA President): Ah I'm very good, I'm very happy like. But I'm able to do nothing, but I'm very happy. I'm out on the farm, and I often remember the day you conversed with me, Tom Parlon and myself in Nenagh.

Joe Duffy: I do indeed, I do indeed. It was the first time I ever met Tom Parlon and the first time I ever met you and it must be nearly sixteen or seventeen years . .

John Donnelly (Former IFA President): It was 1993.

Joe Duffy: 1993.

John Donnelly (Former IFA President): 1993.

Joe Duffy: With Gay Byrne, so that was what sixteen years ago. And you've come a long way, and Tom Parlon has come a long way. And I'm still here as well John. So thank God the three of us are still on God's earth. John I really appreciate you contacting us today, and it's great to hear that your doing so well under the circumstances.

John Donnelly (Former IFA President): I'm doing very well and thanks very much.

Joe Duffy: And your friends will not be surprised that you've battled through it so valiantly. So great to hear John Donnelly there. As you say he texts and he got 800 texts when he told people that he could do it. So I'm sure people who have his number will communicate with John. Thanks indeed John Donnelly. Does Helen want to come in briefly. Helen?

Helen: Hi Joe.

Joe Duffy: I'm being rude now because of such a short time.

Helen: I know that. No I'm just Damien's mother, that was on earlier to you, who is profoundly deaf. And I just wanted to say I think it was very sad and dreadful that in this day and age that technology hadn't come on a little bit for people who are profoundly deaf. I mean their daughter is very very ill, and she has gone blue on five different occasions. And only for Phonewatch they wouldn't have been able to get an ambulance quick enough. And going back even to Phonewatch, I mean there's three emergency buttons on Phonewatch. One is for Fire Brigade, one is for Ambulance and the other is for Gardai. But they can say what they want, do you know what I mean.

Joe Duffy: I known and . . .

Helen: And this child, I mean the child, Adam who rang in the Phonewatch was asked for the password. Now that child wouldn't have had a clue what the password was.

Joe Duffy: Ok so you're saying more services and hopefully this will have more services, should be conscious.

Helen: Something has to be done Joe it has to be done with regard to being able to text. The only way I can contact Damien is by text, and I'm his mother.

Joe Duffy: Ok, thanks indeed Helen I appreciate all you calls. Back tomorrow 13:45 Margaret Curley produced and Derek Mooney is next good afternoon.