Joseph Murphy Junior, Said that Michael Bailey reang him in June 1997
The Flood Tribunal has been shown phone records of calls between Minister Dermot Ahern and Joseph Murphy Junior on the day Ray Burke made a Dáil speech on payments he received from the Murphy Group. Mr Ahern had initially denied the calls, but later admitted that it was possible he simply did not remember.
Joseph Murphy Junior said that Mr Ahern phoned him on 10 September 1997, the day that Ray Burke was due to address the Dáil about payments from James Gogarty. He said that his wife had taken the call and was given a message that Dermot phoned and no surname was given. He said that he telephoned Mr Ahern on his mobile and told him that he had intended contacting him, because he had now pieced together more information and could trace payments to Ray Burke.
He said that Mr Ahern thanked him for the information and said that he would ring him back. In the second phone call, Dermot Ahern asked if the Murphy Group had made any donations to other political parties. He said that he needed ammunition to use against the opposition and that Fianna Fáil was anxious to avoid a tribunal. He also claimed that Mr Ahern said that, if Ray Burke's Dáil speech did not work, they would have no problem putting him out to grass.
The tribunal was shown printouts of calls made from Leinster House that day and the corresponding calls from Joseph Murphy's London office. Counsel for the Murphy Group said that it had been Joseph Murphy's evidence all along that these calls had taken place and the documents were proof that he was right. Garret Cooney said that Dermot Ahern had initially denied the calls had taken place. He said that he did not believe Mr Ahern had tried to mislead the tribunal, but that he could not remember them.
Joseph Murphy Junior told the Tribunal earlier that he refused to entertain a suggestion by Michael Bailey in 1997 that they pay James Gogarty £100,000 to "sort him out." Mr Murphy said that Michael Bailey rang him in June 1997, around the time the present government was being formed. He told him that he had been speaking to both Bertie Ahern and Ray Burke.
He also told Mr Murphy that this "Gogarty thing" was getting out of hand and that £100,000 would sort it out. Mr Murphy said that Michael Bailey suggested they pay £50,000 each, but he refused, saying that he had resisted Gogarty's blackmail attempts before. He said that Michael Bailey told him that he had left Ray Burke in no doubt that he was caught up in a dispute between two old men.
Earlier, a loan adjuster gave evidence relating to a broken window at James Gogarty's house in 1991. Mr Gogarty claimed that shots had been fired through the window, causing £2,000 worth of damage. The witness said that, when he visited Mr Gogarty's home, the window had already been replaced, and that Mr Gogarty mentioned nothing about shots being fired.
