O’Gara Debate A 2007 Hangover?

by Brendan Cole

Ronan O'Gara before the England matchI’ll preface this by saying I believe that Ronan O’Gara is the right player to start against Scotland this weekend and that against an underpowered and passive Scottish defence he could well have his best game of the Championship so far.

Even so, the Cork Con and Munster out-half has had two poor games in the eyes of most observers in his last two starts, struggling for time on the ball against aggressive Italian and English defences and finding it tough to bring his talents to bear on the match. In both clashes, O’Gara carried more ball into contact than he or anyone else would like to see and he has also not been getting the best out of the men outside him. Wales will present similar difficulties in two weeks' time. 

That the place-kicking radar went seriously awry against England is almost a separate issue. Any kicker can have a bad day with the boot and O’Gara didn’t miss a single shot at the posts against Italy. The accuracy went for missing at Croker but it will come back.

General play a concern......?

But general play remains a concern and even moreso because of the fact that the debate over his selection has taken on a strange character these past few weeks. Arguably, the out-half question is the sole position in which the bankrupt ‘untouchable’ thinking of the Eddie O’Sullivan era still has traction, at least in the media and wider public debate.

To recap, O’Sullivan’s decision to base his selection policy around the 15 players who lined out in the ‘perfect’ quashing of England in that year’s RBS 6 Nations did untold damage to Ireland over the following two years. In retrospect, the performance of that England team had serious question marks over it on the basis of their exceptionally poor preparation. In any case, by basically shutting down selection debates and ignoring form, O’Sullivan brought about the total atrophy of his team over the following year and a half.

Broadly speaking, many of the arguments in favour of the continued selection of O’Gara at out-half are based on similar ideas in that they are founded on his record as a points scorer at international level and on a vague notion that there is no-one else capable of doing the job at 10.

Record a suitable criteria for selection?

Ronan O'Gara at RWC 2007Taking the record argument first, it is clearly the case that O’Gara’s form over the last year or so is much more significant in terms of measuring future performance than his achievements since his first cap in 2000. The cap and points totals, though admirable, do not in and of themselves constitute a strong argument in favour of his being selected in future.

It is likely that after a certain point – for argument’s sake let’s say the 20-30 cap mark – the effect of experience on player performance is subject to swiftly diminishing returns.  

The theory that O’Gara simply must be selected on the basis that there is no-one else to do the job is possibly even more dangerous.

Is it an accident that O’Gara is performing farther below his potential that any of the other  starters? Could that be related to the perception that regardless of how he plays, he will play?

But I would still have him at out-half on the basis that changes in and around him could yet result in him bringing his best form to the table in a big match.

That top form is still superior to those of the young pretenders – the likes of Jonathan Sexton, Ian Keatley and Ian Humphries and long-time back-up Paddy Wallace and that is the vital factor in O'Gara's favour. In the medium term, bringing a proper number 10 onto the bench and allowing him to build a case for inclusion will be essential if Ireland are to maintain a modicum of control and quality in the position.

Scrum-half - key to O'Gara's form?

Obviously, the crucial factor is the scrum-half selection. O’Gara has taken a good deal of ball close to the ruck so far in this Championship and it may be that the extra length and pace in Peter Stringer’s pass would allow the out-half’s skills to come through that bit better, even against the most aggressive defences.

The initial argument for dropping Stringer centred around his inability to tie up opposition back-row forwards. With the scrum-half break now a non-factor in the game, due to the current rucking culture, his long and quick passing again looks a trumping argument in Stringer’s favour.

 


Comments:

Interesting discussion and it brings me back to the World Cup. I can't remember which of the first 3 games but the cameo appearance of Paddy Wallace was a delight at that time in comparison to what was a nightmare tournament for O'Gara. Why not try Wallace at 10 again?

Posted by Ed on March 10, 2009 at 01:50 PM GMT #

Ed - Fairly sure he came in and spun out a few nice passes v.Namibia. I'd be inclined to agree that if O'Gara looks like having a poor one, Wallace should come in sooner rather than later. Not sure he'd be a long term solution though.....in my book, the other player in the Ireland squad that ticks the boxes in terms of being a modern out-half is actually Rob Kearney (seriously!)

Posted by Brendan Cole on March 10, 2009 at 01:53 PM GMT #

Apart from winning this championship and a bonus of a grand slam Kidney has to keep one eye on the next world cup. There are not enough true no. 10s playing top class rugby. Johnny Sexton has taken a back seat in Leinster to accommodate Contepomi who in turn is facilitating a richness in centres. We need to develop no. 10s but that said I feel Rob Kearney's career should not be hindered with the distraction of playing at out-half. I'm a Rob Kearney fan, leave him alone!!

Posted by Jim on March 10, 2009 at 02:25 PM GMT #

Jim - it's not up to me, so I'd say Rob is safe! Nobody will be seen as the 'next O'Gara' unless they are given the type of chances he got as a younger player......the trick is to figure out which is the best young O/H.

Posted by Brendan Cole on March 10, 2009 at 02:37 PM GMT #

Ian Humphries seems to be doing the business for Ulster and then there's Ian Keatley playing well for Connacht. I think one of these Ians, probably Humphries, should be brought into the Irish setup as soon as possible to get a flavour of international rugby. Whether O'Gara is on form or not, he won't last forever, a replacement needs to be groomed starting now.

Posted by Ed on March 10, 2009 at 02:42 PM GMT #

Very good piece. The lack of having an alternative outhalf is really a chicken-and-egg situation. We can never tell if a player is capable of performing at international level unless we see him playing there. They need to pick at least one OH and try him more than once or twice for ten mins to see what hes made of. Also, Leamy's selection ahead of Heaslip, our joint player of the tournament so far, is scandalous. Leamy hasnt even been good when brought on in games. Obvious Munster bias here. And it has probably ruined Heaslips automatic Lions selection.

Posted by Chris on March 10, 2009 at 02:46 PM GMT #

Rob Kearney - interesting, my own personnel feeling is that T O Leary might move to out half at some stage in his career, he's played there before and I’ve heard rumours that while the team got a day off during one of the six nation breaks, himself and rog spent that day practicing their kicking, watch this space

Posted by Donal on March 10, 2009 at 02:59 PM GMT #

I agree with Brendan, Rob Kearney has the makings of a great out-half. If he was in France or the Southern Hemisphere they'd definitely make a 10 out of him. It's not as if the rest of the back-up to O'Gara at the moment are putting him under pressure - Munster, with Paul Warwick, have better cover for O'Gara than Ireland do. Johnny Sexton has had plenty of chances and just doesn't cut it and Humphries isn't up to the standard. I've liked Keatley any time I've watched him but he needs to get back to Leinster and get plenty of games with them before he could really be considered. If Kearney is a long-term option for out-half, Ireland have plenty of cover for full-back in Luke Fitzgerald and Keith Earls, who are both better attackers than Kearney anyway even if it's unlikely they'll ever be as reliable under the high ball. My long-term Ireland backline would be: O'Leary, Kearney; Bowe, Cave, Earls, Trimble; Fitzgerald

Posted by Steven on March 10, 2009 at 03:05 PM GMT #

In my opinion the best long term successor for ROG is Ian Keatley. He is first choice for Connaught and doing a good job for them. He seems to have all the skills to become an international out half. Johnny Sexton just is not getting enough game time to be considered at the moment.

Posted by 192.168.24.17 on March 10, 2009 at 03:07 PM GMT #

There was an article in the UK Times by Stephen Jones before the England game where he stated that if O'Gara broke his leg, the alternative would be to play O'Gara with a broken leg. However, he has been frequently poor for Ireland over the past two years. Maybe Stringer will help this but he was there for lots of poor performances before. I would preferred to see Reddan given the nod. Medium-term though, we need to develop someone. That means throwing one of the young 10s in at the deep end as far as I am concerned.

Posted by zeleneye on March 10, 2009 at 03:30 PM GMT #

We need to start blooding another out half and soon. It is a hang up from the O'Sullivan era, O'Gara (quite rightly) was the number 10 but when David Humphries retired another out half should have gotten some game time as well. We need to take a risk and try some unproven player in a meaningful situation, not the last 2 minutes in a match that has been won instead the last 20-30 minutes in a close encounter. If the other out halfs can't force their way into the Inter-provincial teams, maybe they need to leave Ireland for the short term to get some game time and experience?

Posted by Colin on March 10, 2009 at 03:33 PM GMT #

Cole - I think you're loosing it (since you got kicked off strictly come dancing). Judging by your recent blog re the lions test 8, you'd probably fancy Heaslip at stand off. Give Eddie Hekenui a call and see if he's got an Irish grandmother.

Posted by richard grey on March 10, 2009 at 03:44 PM GMT #

I don't think it's very fair on Tomás O'Leary to say that because O'Gara is playing badly, we need to bring in another scrum-half. I mean if Rob Kearney was playing badly at full-back, we wouldn't just get rid of his fellow backs in the hope that he might then do better.

Posted by Colin on March 10, 2009 at 04:01 PM GMT #

Our lack of depth at out half has been my one criticism of Kidney since he came in. People would argue that Paddy Wallace provides cover (and he does if we're stuck) but he isn't a 10, and he hasn't been playing at 10 for Ulster for some time. As a Connacht fan, I might be expected to back Ian Keatley for the back up role, but I don't think he's quite there yet. I do think his move to Connacht was an excellent one, and he will be one for the future. In the meantime, I'd be happy to see Ian Humphreys promoted to the senior squad. I appreciate that he has only recently made the 10 jersey his own at Ulster, but he has shown in the past that he has the big game temperment. Adding him to the squad would at least make Ronan think twice about his safety. We need him out of the comfort zone to get him back to his best.

Posted by Ronan on March 10, 2009 at 04:33 PM GMT #

I beleive Ian humphreys/johnny sexton should be getting there chance for Ireland, on the bench at the least!! Theyve played against some tough teams in the European Cup that would be just as good as Italy or Scotland. Why should Paddy Wallace be our back up Outhalf when he cant even play in that position for his province! Get rid of Paddy Wallace and put in Sexton or Humphrey.

Posted by Cathal on March 10, 2009 at 04:39 PM GMT #

I'd like to see Ian Keatley get capped in the summer as I think he is the most naturally gifted of the up and coming out halfs Ireland has. And the important thing he is getting game time with Connaught.

Posted by Willie on March 10, 2009 at 04:50 PM GMT #

I have complete faith in O'Gara in completeing this season at the helm. The crucial point in this debate is the "feed" to the outhalf. ROG will have a better game in Edinburgh with Stringer back. Stringer is the right selection for Scotland as we need to get the ball out wide quick. Against Wales we will need O'Leary back as the extra wingforward to help the Irish pack front up to the Welsh pack. In this professional era can we not work on O'Leary's pass? Can Stringer not coach him? Can old dogs not learn new tricks?

Posted by Jas O'Callaghan on March 10, 2009 at 05:21 PM GMT #

This is surely the last hangover from the EOS era. Contepomi holding on to OH at Leinster; ROG at Munster; David H (until recently) in Ulster; thus leaving very little room for home grown / emerging no 10s except in Connacht. I have not seen Keatley play but hear good things of him. Result - no serious backup for ROG. Years ago Mike Gibson said that if he were picking a team the FIRST name on the team sheet would be the goal kicker. That means ROG in the current Ireland setup. Yes he had a poor game against England, but he doesn't often have poor kicking games. Summer tour - send Ian Humphries and Ian Keatley (Sexton hasn't got it for international level). Whether or not ROG is on the LIons tour, do not take him on the Ireland tour. Let the two youngsters do or die.

Posted by Olive on March 10, 2009 at 05:26 PM GMT #

I definitely agree that we should have a proper out half on the bench. Ian Humprheys being my choice. I am a big Munster fan but I was surprised when Kidney didn't bring him in on the bench. It would help O Gara greatly if we had proper back up. Delighted Stringer is on, has the fastest pair of hands in Europe

Posted by Ciara Madden on March 10, 2009 at 05:38 PM GMT #

I was disappointed when the six nations training squad was initially named when jon sexton was in it ahead of Ian humphreys. Ian has been at the center of the turn around in ulster, he was in exceptional form before the squad was named with a mom performance against munster which is no easy feat in thomand. Even when he was at leicester you could see he had the raw talent, but just needed a good run in the team. Now with that chance at ulster he has improved into a consistent performer and has become a better tackler. He's a very good place kicker, fast, good passer, good at kicking out of hand. I think he will be challenging ROG for his place after the 6 nations and rightly so. I also think warwick will be pushing rog close for his place at munster. Humphreys next for ireland at no 10 with keatley and o'conor looking for a bench position.

Posted by mick on March 10, 2009 at 06:08 PM GMT #

Interesting really. Paddy Wallace has never really performed well at out-half for Ireland. I would like to see Ian Humpreys given a shot at it. He's young and has impressed well and deserves a chance. Sexton has really dropped off the radar this season with the introduction Nacewa to Leinster which is disappointing. Im not sure moving Kearney to Out-half is the solution either. He's a fantasticly safe pair of hands under the high ball and a great counter attacker. To put him in a out half would just be a waste of his nature talent. O'leary at out half would be interesting but just because he can kick isn't and shouldn't be a deciding factor in the choice. the out-half should be a good play maker above all. Anyone on the team can take place kicks. At the moment O'Gara's biggest problem at the moment and it has been for a while is his inability to find touch either from play or from Penalties and this needs to be addressed. Question is though why does he play so much better for Munster?

Posted by Seamus on March 10, 2009 at 06:20 PM GMT #

Interesting really. Paddy Wallace has never really performed well at out-half for Ireland. I would like to see Ian Humpreys given a shot at it. He's young and has impressed well and deserves a chance. Sexton has really dropped off the radar this season with the introduction Nacewa to Leinster which is disappointing. Im not sure moving Kearney to Out-half is the solution either. He's a safe pair of hands under the high ball and a great counter attacker. To put him in a out half would just be a waste of his nature talent. O'leary at out half would be interesting but just because he can kick shouldn't be a deciding factor in the choice. the out-half should be a good play maker above all. Anyone on the team can take place kicks. At the moment O'Gara's biggest problem is his inability to find touch either from play or from Penalties and this needs to be addressed. Question is though why does he play so much better for Munster?

Posted by 192.168.24.19 on March 10, 2009 at 06:20 PM GMT #

ROG has done great things for Irish rugby but his time is near the end. Excitement after so many caps has to eventually subside, hence his ability on the field. Johnny Sexton should be given more playing time with Leinster, where he will prove his international ability. A game here and there doesn't do his confidence much good, and we all know that confidence is everything at that level.

Posted by Matt on March 10, 2009 at 06:30 PM GMT #

O Gara is class only worry is we have no one to replace him

Posted by 127.0.0.1 on March 10, 2009 at 06:45 PM GMT #

I definitely think Ian Humphreys should be on the bench to replace O' Gara. I think Johnathan Sexton isn't good enough at the moment maybe in a few years. I also don't see how sexton is making the A team before humphreys.

Posted by John on March 10, 2009 at 08:05 PM GMT #

The argument whether about O'Gara's short term individual under-performance or the long term problem of Irelands out half position solution lies with competition for places. O'Gara now the wrong side of 30 one would expect not to be given the 'untouchable' selection status by Kidney which he was afforded by the unimaginative O'Sullivan. The first requirement of cover for the international out half is regular club game time in that position which excludes Paddy Wallace. The second is form. At some stage hopefully sooner rather than later looking at the long term solution Kidney will bring in one of the young alternatives at stand off into the squad. It will take time to establish a credable alternative to O'Gara but the chance needs to be offered certainly on the Ireland tour. My choice would be Ian Humphreys who has faught for his position at Ulster and made it his own this season with examples of performing in the big pressure matches. Come on Declan shake up the bench and the stagnant legacy of the O'Sullivan era, and start blooding an new out half!

Posted by Paul on March 10, 2009 at 09:36 PM GMT #

ROG definitely deserves to keep the shirt. Every out half including Carter can have a bad day kicking goals. I would want ROG sitting in the pocket if we needed a drop goal to win the Grand Slam or Championship! In a more general sense it seems harder to look good as an out half now with not being able to kick the ball straight out when it's passed from outside the 22.

Posted by Richie on March 10, 2009 at 09:40 PM GMT #

Most contributors seem to agree that we living a charmed existence with no real back up an ageless RO'G. The hard truth is that with only 4 provinces and many overseas half backs the only place left to develop our own talent at 10 is also overseas. That's the reality.

Posted by Michael Duncan on March 10, 2009 at 11:09 PM GMT #

I'm a Leinster fan living in NZ. When Leinster took in Nacewa I thought it was a good move. A versatile player who could fill in a number of positions when Irish players are away on duty. In hind-sight, I think it has been a negative thing. There are alot of homegrown options competitors and the midfield/back 3 options at Leinster just have too many possible permutations to give a settled side. The fact that Kearney languished on the wing for 3 months after his showing in NZ and Oz said it all. Another spin off has been the lack of ability to develop an decent home-grown out-half for Ireland. Nacewa is not suited to Northern Hemisphere out-half play where there is a larger emphasis on control and agruably neither is Contepomi. I think in the long term it will be best for Leinster if Contepomi moves on to France and allow the likes of Sexton or possible Keatley (should he return) to get a decent run at OH and allow them to develop, rather than being in one week and out the next. OH is such a confidence position, that chopping and changing from week to week can be very damaging. Would also love to see Stringer make the move north next season, what are the odds?????

Posted by Eoghan on March 11, 2009 at 12:37 AM GMT #

Was very surprised when Humphries was overlooked for the 6N squad this year. I'm a Leinster supporter living in NZ. I think it's vitally important that Irish out-halves are playing in position for their provinces and, to that end, I'm hoping that Contepomi makes the move to France at the end of the season. Will definitely be a loss in the short term but in the long term I think it would be worth it. Would also like to see Nacewa hit the road. Decent player but plays in an area where Leinster are already strong and I'm a firm believer that overseas players should only be brought in to fit into areas where there is a short term defcit of talent. Also what are the chances of Stringer making the move North next season?? Would be great for Leinster as I think Whittaker is very much a weak point for us.

Posted by Eoghan on March 11, 2009 at 12:47 AM GMT #

Very good article - really highlights one area of huge concern. I think the suggestion of Kearney is bold but the reaction would be one of incredulity. I think rugby coaches/supporters have become too formulaic about positions - particularly in the backs. Great players in any team sport can usually play in multiple positions. All backs should be able to kick, pass, run and tackle, so why not just put our best footballers in the backline rather than thinking of "who has a big boot and can play 10". France stuck Baby in at 10 for their biggest match and it was never an issue. Collective responsibility.

Posted by David on March 11, 2009 at 03:42 AM GMT #

this whole debate just goes to show what a mess eddie o sullivan made of the shane geraghty situation......... no question geraghty would now be the no 1 back up to o gara if o sullivan had brought him into the squad when he was in charge! geraghty played all his underage rugby for ireland and when o sullivan didnt bring him in england snapped up...... yes he has his flaws but he is certainly better than any of the back up options we have available at the moment!

Posted by Brian Clancy on March 11, 2009 at 10:16 AM GMT #

O'Gara has done so much for Ireland & Munster. He's won us may a game and his tactical kicking is second to none. But when he has an off day, he's off. Tackling is poor, cantact running is poor and then frustration sets in and passes start going astray. Complete lack of cover means the whole team suffer as a result when this happens. Humphreys deserves a shot for the work he's put in so far. ROG was a great player but he needs to be challenged for his place!

Posted by Diarmuid on March 11, 2009 at 11:29 AM GMT #

Seems to me that O'Gara only plays well when in a Munster Jersey, give Wallace a tryout what have we got to lose, he couldn't be any worse than O'Gara has been in the last 2 games

Posted by Sharon on March 11, 2009 at 02:51 PM GMT #

Contepomi leaving Leinster at end of season - opportunity knocks!! If Leinster management go abroad for a replacement then disaster looms.

Posted by Jim on March 13, 2009 at 11:26 AM GMT #

Contepomi leaving in the summer, great for irish rugby if they decide to go no further than Connaught for Ian Keatley.I am a munster man true & true but lads ROG has 2 bad games, give him a break, he will be back saturday with all guns blazing and not just because Stringer is in. The ELV's have changed the game, personally not for the better and this has had a direct effect at out-half. Also lads d'ont forget when Dricco was having a nightmare in the world cup and the rest of the squad we all stood behind him/them and look how that has turned out, things are just coming right. We have to stop knocking our own boys when they are down, we must be the worst country in the world for knocking and not having a belief that we can & will come out on top. The Grand Slam is within our grasp, let's grab it with both hands.

Posted by Erik on March 13, 2009 at 02:02 PM GMT #

Bring back eric Elwood or Tony Ward!

Posted by Nonu on March 13, 2009 at 04:48 PM GMT #

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